Chevy Silverado EV Revealed: GM's Best-Selling Truck Goes Electric (theverge.com) 116
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Chevy Silverado, one of the top-selling pickup trucks in the US, is going electric. General Motors CEO Mary Barra unveiled Chevy's answer to the Ford F-150 Lightning during a virtual presentation at this year's Consumer Electronics Show. GM hopes that the plug-in pickup's familiar nameplate will help it lure Silverado owners and other truck fans to the world of zero tailpipe emissions. The Silverado EV is the second electric truck for GM, succeeding the GMC Hummer EV, which went into production last year. But when it comes out in late 2023, the electric Silverado will be one of the flagship vehicles in the company's much larger $35 billion push into electric vehicles, as well as the first electric truck for the automaker's Chevy brand.
At launch, the Silverado EV will be available in two configurations: an RST First Edition and a fleet-oriented Work Truck (WT) model. Both models will get more than 400 miles of range on a full charge (though that number still needs to be certified by the Environmental Protection Agency). The base model work truck will start at $39,900, while the fully loaded RST First Edition, named because it will be first off the assembly line in spring 2023, will sell for the suggested price of $105,000. Chevy says that after production ramps up, various versions of the truck will be available for $50,000-$80,000. The automaker is already taking reservations.
Like most electric vehicles, the electric Silverado will be incredibly quick, able to sprint from 0 to 60 mph in less than 4.5 seconds. That's quicker than the RWD single-motor Cybertruck and about on par with the Ford F-150 Lightning and the tri-motor Cybertruck. (Tesla says the quad-motor truck will be able to hit 60 mph in 2.9 seconds.) The RST version sounds like it could easily knock the wind out of you, with 485kW of total power (664 horsepower) and 780 pound-feet of torque while in the Silverado's Wide Open Watts Mode. The RST First Edition of the truck will also feature a host of additional features, including: Four-wheel steering; Automatic Adaptive Air Suspension, enabling the vehicle to be raised or lowered 2 inches; Multi-Flex Midgate that expands the truck's cargo capability while maintaining seating for a rear row passenger Available Multi-Flex Tailgate with power release; 17-inch LCD infotainment screen paired with a neighboring 11-inch-diagonal reconfigurable driver instrument display and a multi-color driver head-up display with a field of view over 14 inches; and Trailering-capable Super Cruise, GM's hands-free driver assistance technology, allowing drivers to travel hands-free on more than 200,000 miles of compatible roads across the US and Canada. GM doesn't have its own charging network, so Silverado EV owners "will need to rely on a patchwork of third-party EV charging companies for most of their needs," notes The Verge. For onboard power, the Silverado bests the F-150 Lightning "putting out an incredible 10.2kW for all sorts of charging needs, including powering an entire home or charging another electric vehicle."
The vehicle will be built in Detroit at GM's Factory Zero EV plant.
Further reading:
Car and Driver: As Chevy Silverado EV Charges after Ford F-150 Lightning, How They Compare
The Drive: Here's What Comes in the $40K 2024 Chevy Silverado EV Work Truck
Engadget: Watch GM's Silverado EV Reveal In 10 Minutes
At launch, the Silverado EV will be available in two configurations: an RST First Edition and a fleet-oriented Work Truck (WT) model. Both models will get more than 400 miles of range on a full charge (though that number still needs to be certified by the Environmental Protection Agency). The base model work truck will start at $39,900, while the fully loaded RST First Edition, named because it will be first off the assembly line in spring 2023, will sell for the suggested price of $105,000. Chevy says that after production ramps up, various versions of the truck will be available for $50,000-$80,000. The automaker is already taking reservations.
Like most electric vehicles, the electric Silverado will be incredibly quick, able to sprint from 0 to 60 mph in less than 4.5 seconds. That's quicker than the RWD single-motor Cybertruck and about on par with the Ford F-150 Lightning and the tri-motor Cybertruck. (Tesla says the quad-motor truck will be able to hit 60 mph in 2.9 seconds.) The RST version sounds like it could easily knock the wind out of you, with 485kW of total power (664 horsepower) and 780 pound-feet of torque while in the Silverado's Wide Open Watts Mode. The RST First Edition of the truck will also feature a host of additional features, including: Four-wheel steering; Automatic Adaptive Air Suspension, enabling the vehicle to be raised or lowered 2 inches; Multi-Flex Midgate that expands the truck's cargo capability while maintaining seating for a rear row passenger Available Multi-Flex Tailgate with power release; 17-inch LCD infotainment screen paired with a neighboring 11-inch-diagonal reconfigurable driver instrument display and a multi-color driver head-up display with a field of view over 14 inches; and Trailering-capable Super Cruise, GM's hands-free driver assistance technology, allowing drivers to travel hands-free on more than 200,000 miles of compatible roads across the US and Canada. GM doesn't have its own charging network, so Silverado EV owners "will need to rely on a patchwork of third-party EV charging companies for most of their needs," notes The Verge. For onboard power, the Silverado bests the F-150 Lightning "putting out an incredible 10.2kW for all sorts of charging needs, including powering an entire home or charging another electric vehicle."
The vehicle will be built in Detroit at GM's Factory Zero EV plant.
Further reading:
Car and Driver: As Chevy Silverado EV Charges after Ford F-150 Lightning, How They Compare
The Drive: Here's What Comes in the $40K 2024 Chevy Silverado EV Work Truck
Engadget: Watch GM's Silverado EV Reveal In 10 Minutes
I think we've had enough announcements... (Score:5, Insightful)
Either way, it's over a year away. Between the Cybertruck (announced in 2019!) the F150 Lightning, the Rivian and now this, it's getting kind of tiresome that none of them are out on the road.
We know a cool electric truck can be prototyped. Now, who can build them?
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Maybe it was a tactical error to ship all our chip fabrication overseas...
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The Rivian is "out on the road". Don't lump Tesla's willingness to continually gaslight Wall Street on their ship dates into all the other manufacturer's announcements.
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"A Rivian" would imply there exist more than one. Is that proven?
(I'm kidding; they're reportedly delivered a few hundred already.)
Re:I think we've had enough announcements... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:I think we've had enough announcements... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not so sure the Rivian is actually out there. Can I buy one? Cause I just checked and it looks like "mid-2022" is the earliest when its supposed to be available. I wouldn't exactly call that "out there"
You're accusing Tesla of gaslighting? That's a bit rich in the electric vehicle market. Yeah, Musk is a bit loose with the release dates, but if you want to buy an actual electric vehicle, your options are a single model from Nissan, another one from BMW, and a few others, if you can find them. Oh, and an entire product line of electrics from Tesla, that are actually shipping with reasonable wait times. SOMEONE is gaslighting, but it's not Tesla. They're delivering real cars to real people. I know people only somewhat richer than me, who own Teslas. Tesla is delivering mass-manufactured electric cars while Ford gives the president a demo ride in a hand-crafted concept vehicle.
The US automakers talked a good game about electrics for decades and delivered on almost nothing. Traditionally, US carmakers response to electrification was "let's just wait it out and pray people will go back to gas". Given US carmakers history, I'm actually doubtful if the F-150 electric winds up in mass production, and Ford is a LOT more nimble than Chevy. I don't have a lot of faith in the US car manufacturers. They've gotten better in recent years, but they spent most of 1970-2010 sitting on their thumbs and raking in cash from selling pickups. That's a fine business, but they're gonna have to PROVE that they can build something other than gasoline crossovers and pickups. No pinky swears.
I won't believe the existence of the electric F-150s or Silverados until I actually see them on the road on a regular basis. Or if I get rear-ended by one.
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"Or if I get rear-ended by one." - probably won't happen, they'll have that anti-collision tech running that appears to becoming a legal requirement around the world.
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"Oh, and an entire product line of electrics from Tesla, that are actually shipping with reasonable wait times."
If you are European, more Tesla cars were sold in Europe than VW Golfs.
If you're an American, the VW Golf compact car is truly a legend, with production starting in 1974.
Basically you take the best known European car, and Tesla beat it in her home.
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The summary is confusing whether to expect these in Spring 2023 or "late 2023", i.e. a 2024 model year vehicle.
There's a video on one of the linked articles that explains the truck will be available to commercial fleet buyers in early 2022, then to the general public in fall 2022, therefore considered a 2023 model year. They made it clear in the video that what they had on display was not what was going to be in production. What wasn't clear is how different the showroom model would be from the early release fleet models, and how the fleet model would vary from the models available to the public. Only GM knows an
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2025 will be about the right time (Score:2)
With battery prices falling, 2025 will be about when a significant proportion of all cars will be electric. So the traditional manufacturers seem to have this one about right.
(This does nothing for the environment while we still burn coal to produce the electricity.)
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With battery prices falling, 2025 will be about when a significant proportion of all cars will be electric.
Define "significant proportion". There's a shortage of batteries suited for electric vehicles already, and more factories for greater battery production cannot be built that quickly. Also there is the issue of raw materials for making the batteries, it takes time to ramp that up too.
So the traditional manufacturers seem to have this one about right.
The traditional automakers will be better equipped to handle any battery supply issues because they can still sell cars that have no batteries, or just fewer batteries like in a hybrid. Tesla keeps pushing back the production
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The summary is confusing whether to expect these in Spring 2023 or "late 2023", i.e. a 2024 model year vehicle.
Either way, it's over a year away. Between the Cybertruck (announced in 2019!) the F150 Lightning, the Rivian and now this, it's getting kind of tiresome that none of them are out on the road.
We know a cool electric truck can be prototyped. Now, who can build them?
How long before the state governments adds an annual permit tax on the truck plates tax? That added tax would be equivalent to the loss of gasoline taxes if the truck was using gasoline. It could also be a mileage tax. Who knows? But a tax has to come or the roads will be potholes with asphalt around the holes.
Citing the Verge? (Score:5, Insightful)
"GM doesn't have its own charging network, so Silverado EV owners "will need to rely on a patchwork of third-party EV charging companies for most of their needs," notes The Verge."
It's hard to imagine sinking any lower. Having to cite a speeds and feeds site...and for a comment like this? Of course the Verge doesn't know or care that this is nothing more than a pro-Tesla comment but do /. editors needs to copy this bullshit from a trash site like that?
Don't ICE manufacturers have to "rely on a patchwork of third-party" gas stations?
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You seem irrationally upset over something copy and pasted.
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Well, gas stations pumps have dispensers that are a standard size and fit into any ICE vehicle for refueling without a 2nd thought you can pull into any service stations confident that the gas pump will fit and fill your car.
Do all EV vehicles have a stardard charging male/female plugging system to recharge?
Do they all charge at the same rate/amps/voltage, etc?
I'm asking honestly...I don't know, but I'd assume at this poin
Re:Citing the Verge? (Score:4, Funny)
Well, there's the premium Monster charging cables that condition the electrons and even have arrows painted on them so they know which way to flow.
Other than those, the rest use one of these [evconnect.com].
EV charging standards (Score:5, Informative)
Do all EV vehicles have a stardard charging male/female plugging system to recharge?
There are multiple standards for charging.
In the USA, Tesla uses a standard that Tesla invented. Normally I hate it when companies ignore industry standards and make their own, but the Tesla charging standard really is better than what came before it: it can deliver a lot of power and it has a data channel. So, a Tesla owner can simply plug in a car and walk away, and it will Just Work. That's good.
The lowest-common-denominator standard is SAE J1772 [wikipedia.org], which is a common standard found just about everywhere. In my experience, if you plug a car in to a J1772, then for each hour it spends charging it can get maybe 6 kWh of charge (good for 16 to 18 miles of range in my car). There are multiple free chargers near me (for example, there are four in the parking garage under the public library) but they are so slow that I rarely bother with them anymore.
Note that the J1772 standard doesn't have any kind of data handshake. That doesn't matter with the free chargers; you just plug them in and charge. But the for-profit charging networks would like to be paid when you use their chargers, so you need to supply a credit card number or sign in with a prepaid account. That means there is an extra step of making a phone call, using a phone app, or swiping a card through a reader.
There are several competing standards for faster charging. I think the one that's winning overall is CCS. You can read about the various standards here: https://electrek.co/2021/10/22/electric-vehicle-ev-charging-standards-and-how-they-differ/ [electrek.co]
In Europe, all cars are mandated to support CCS, and Tesla sells cars with CCS there.
Finally, in most cases you can use adapters to let a car charge with a different standard. Obviously electricity doesn't come in Tesla flavor vs. Nissan flavor or whatever, so in principle anything can be converted to anything (you just need to adapt connectors and any handshakes).
As far as I can tell, an adapter seems to exist to let a Tesla use any of the charging standards. For example, Tesla offers a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter, which is trivial (just a male Tesla plug with a female J1772 socket). The Tesla J1772 adapter comes with every Tesla, and if you want to buy another one it's about $100.
Tesla has offered multiple times to license out its charging standard. Tesla has the best EV charging network in the world, and they are aggressively building it out to improve it, so it will remain the best in the world. If I were the boss at a company like Lucid, I would cut a deal with Tesla to use their charging network. But so far nobody has done this.
(I don't get it because it's a difficult task to build out a charging network, and the profit from it doesn't seem like it would be worth the hassle for a car manufacturer. I guess every car manufacturer dreams of eclipsing Tesla and doesn't want to depend on Tesla in any way, but IMHO Lucid and similar companies are destined to be niche players for whom charging is a distraction rather than a huge opportunity. Note that a niche player can still be profitable and successful. But Lucid has no chance of ending up bigger than Tesla.)
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So the short answer is no.
But that was a good write up, thanks.
An hour on the charger for 20 minutes of driving. Wow. I didn't know it was that bad, but the math is the math. At least that explains why I still haven't seen an EV out here in the semi-sticks.
Since you have one of these, do you live where there is real winter? How much does range suffer driving at night on a snowy road with the wipers and defroster and heat when it's say 10 F?
Re:EV charging standards (Score:5, Informative)
An hour on the charger for 20 minutes of driving. Wow.
And that's why Tesla invented their own standard... J1772 wasn't really adequate.
But if you have a Nissan Leaf with pathetic range, and you are going shopping at a mall, you can plug in your Leaf and let it charge while you shop, and the extra 15-30 miles of range might mean you make it home vs. not making it home. So even this standard isn't useless.
And of course if you have it at home, and you let your car charge overnight, J1772 is fine.
that explains why I still haven't seen an EV out here in the semi-sticks
To find out what chargers are available near you, and what kind of charging is available at them, I recommend PlugShare:
https://www.plugshare.com/ [plugshare.com]
Note that Tesla has more chargers than any other company. They have over 30,000 chargers in at least 2,500 stations, and they have a factory line in China that can make 10,000 chargers per year. Tesla has the money now to really build out their charging network, and people using the network pay to use it so there is a revenue stream to help pay for the expansion, so it's only going to get better.
My guess is that once Tesla is selling a pickup truck and an economy car ($25,000 selling price) that you finally will start to see Teslas near you.
do you live where there is real winter?
No, I live too close to the ocean to get real winter.
However, Teslas are the most popular cars in Norway, and Norway really does have real winter.
The government of Norway has put an insane level of taxes on combustion cars, so the people of Norway are kind of forced into electric cars. But if Teslas didn't work, people wouldn't spend the money to get them.
There are lots of articles you can find about how well electric cars work in cold weather. Here's one:
https://electrek.co/2020/02/11/tesla-model-3-arctic-circle-winter/ [electrek.co]
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Plugshare was interesting. Except for Wenatchee, no fast chargers in Eastern WA north of I-90.
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You can still make an EV work if you can charge overnight. If you can find 240V for charging (a dryer outlet, an RV park, etc.) you can take the car from 0% to full charge overnight. If I ran a motel in a small town I would make sure to have 240V charging available (a J1772 home charger, or even just a NEMA 14-50 outlet) and I would advertise this.
My wife and I drove to visit relatives in California, and on the trip we spent a night in a Super 8 motel that had EV chargers. We started out the next day wit
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I know the people with long-range excuses come out of the woodwork, but honestly overnight charging seems mostly good enough. I figure I could get about 10 hours charging a day in no problem -- I'm seldom home later than 8 pm, and seldom leave before 7 am. Yes, that's 11 hours, and some days I could probably get 14 hours (home at 6, leave at 8 the next day).
This is more or less the typical American commute, and even if its on the high side at 100 miles per day (80 miles commuting, 20 random miles for err
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Plugshare was interesting. Except for Wenatchee, no fast chargers in Eastern WA north of I-90.
That probably doesn't matter. It depends on the details, of course, but in general you only need fast chargers when you're going on a long road trip, and in that case you don't need the fast chargers near home, you need them at appropriate locations between where you are and where you're going.
When you're at home, you charge at home. You don't need a fast charger, a level 2 charger (likely with J1772 plug) in your garage/driveway ensures that your car has a full charge every morning. So you just need to m
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That probably doesn't matter.
That's a good point. People may not realize it but as long as your destination is within half your car's range from a Supercharger station, you are fine. Stop at the Supercharger, charge up, drive to your destination and then back.
Since my car's range is at least 300 miles, I'd be comfortable going anywhere that's within a 140-mile radius of a Supercharger station.
So I personally would be comfortable driving to Republic, WA even though it is currently in the middle of an EV ch
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That's a good point. People may not realize it but as long as your destination is within half your car's range from a Supercharger station, you are fine. Stop at the Supercharger, charge up, drive to your destination and then back.
Exactly.
And it's also worth pointing out that this is less of a problem for people who live in a charging desert (many rural areas) and want to drive long distances to visit areas with good fast charging facilities (approximately all cities), than for people who want to do the reverse. When driving out of a charging desert, you only have to find a supercharger within your car's range and in roughly the direction you want to go. When driving into a charging desert, you're restricted to half your car's ran
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I don't need/want to have 2 cars, one for distance one for city.
I just want on that does everything, like I have now.
Until the EV's become as convenient as ICE vehicles we have now, I don't see a lot of incentive to go EV for most people.
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Well, the thing is...what do you do for longer trips?
I don't need/want to have 2 cars, one for distance one for city.
If you have a Tesla, the Supercharging network means it works fine for both. For other brands... it's not clear. As other automakers get into the EV busiiness, Tesla's charging network is a huge competitive advantage.
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I see a couple at a couple of Whole Food markets, likely not Tesla and most all others are private facilities.
It certainly isn't that EV friendly in the greater New Orleans area, unless I was looking at the map wrong...I wouldn't want to depend on an EV to evacuate for a hurricane, and they'd be useless when coming back like from Ida where we had no power for well over a month in many places.
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I searched around my area and I don't see much for ANY type charger available for the public.
I checked Tesla's Supercharger map for New Orleans and there is a Supercharger station (12 chargers, 250 kW each) in a town called Metairie, in the parking lot of a Winn-Dixie grocery store. I've never been to New Orleans but it seems like it's not a horrible drive from New Orleans. (Google Maps says under 6 miles from the center of New Orleans.)
Checking Plugshare [plugshare.com] I see lots of pushpins for lots of public chargers
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I searched around my area and I don't see much for ANY type charger available for the public.
Why would you need one in your area?
You don't need a public charger unless you're far away from home. At home, you charge at home. Unless you live in an apartment and park on the street. EVs don't work well for that case. But if you have a home with a driveway and/or garage, you just install a charger there.
I wouldn't want to depend on an EV to evacuate for a hurricane
An EV is ideal for evacuation, because the battery is basically always full. Unless you go to the gas station daily, your ICEV is not as consistently prepared. EVs are also much better in massive tra
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I searched around my zip code and aside from a couple at a couple of Whole Foods stores, I don't see anything that is really available to the public for charging in the greater New Orleans area, unless I'm reading it wrong.
Most are at private businesses (lots of car dealerships) and the like.
It doesn't seem that viable down here yet.
I'd especially not like to depend on it during a hurricane evacuation.
Re:EV charging standards (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the 3 phase AC chargers used in Europe are about 20kw, so a lot better than the basic single phase ones used in the USA.
The critical thing is that nobody other than Tesla is going to use a Tesla charger. If the other manufacturers start doing this then it would be a pain, you would need to find a Ford charger to charge a Ford etc. Hence the enforced European standard.
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I think a mandated standard for charging is not a bad idea... as long as the standard being mandated actually works okay.
It seems that in Europe, mandating CCS is working pretty well, so that seems overall to be a good thing. But it would have been a bad thing if the USA had mandated J1772 back in 2009; it really wasn't adequate.
I will quote Cooper's Law of Standards: "If it doesn't work, it doesn't stay standard very long."
If the other manufacturers start doing this then it would be a pain
I agree. As I s
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If Tesla will reach the "possible monopoly" status in Europe, offering CCS for non-Tesla cars in its European supercharger network will probably quash any regulatory issues.
If it will be far from "possible monopoly", then basically the charging standards it offers won't matter.
And as long as there is a comparable standard (CCS) followed by basically everybody else on both charging infrastructure _and_ car production side, there's no gain to be had adopting also the Supercharger standard (in Europe, that is,
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Don't they also pull heat from the batteries to help warm the cabin?
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Don't they also pull heat from the batteries to help warm the cabin?
All new Teslas do. The Model Y was the first Tesla model released with a heat pump that can gather heat from the drive train and/or the environment to warm the cabin. Since then, all Tesla models have been updated and now have heat pumps.
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/heat-pumps-the-next-big-efficiency-hack-in-electric-vehicles-ar192036.html [topspeed.com]
https://insideevs.com/news/482829/all-tesla-vehicles-heat-pump/ [insideevs.com]
My Tesla is old, and has only resisti
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It has evolved to octovalve in recent models. The heat can come from ambient air through heat pumps, or from the motor's waste heat while running, or from a battery pack that is too hot. The heat might be needed in the cabin, or the battery pack. Or the cabin and/or the battery pack might need cooling. So the heat pump would w
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At 60 mph 18 miles is 18 minutes. I was being generous.
You flunked math, didn't you.
You did notice we are not talking about the mythical (in this area) fast chargers.
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"An hour on the charger for 20 minutes of driving. Wow."
This could be entirely adequate for a lot of city dwellers, as if you're using free charging in free parking spots for electric vehicles you basically get your electricity at lower-than-free prices (free parking yay).
Also, in the "race" between "slow" charging at a supermarket and the actual time to do shopping, even with this "slow charging" you are probably ahead on actual charge after returning home.
The idea of this "slow charging" is to supplement
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How many chargers in the parking lot?
It would have to be like the old fashioned drive in theaters. Instead of a speaker on a post at every parking spot it would be a charger at every spot, or at least at a decent percentage of them.
For commuting use based at home charging overnight works fine. The 30 amp 240 V welding outlet in the garage is plenty. For travel not so much.
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Haven't actually counted them. Anyway, most of the green (with electric charging) are unoccupied when I pass by.
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Tesla has offered multiple times to license out its charging standard. Tesla has the best EV charging network in the world, and they are aggressively building it out to improve it, so it will remain the best in the world. If I were the boss at a company like Lucid, I would cut a deal with Tesla to use their charging network. But so far nobody has done this.
(I don't get it because it's a difficult task to build out a charging network, and the profit from it doesn't seem like it would be worth the hassle for a car manufacturer. I guess every car manufacturer dreams of eclipsing Tesla and doesn't want to depend on Tesla in any way, but IMHO Lucid and similar companies are destined to be niche players for whom charging is a distraction rather than a huge opportunity. Note that a niche player can still be profitable and successful. But Lucid has no chance of ending up bigger than Tesla.)
The licensing terms have some strings attached [tesla.com] (additional analysis [roadandtrack.com]).
As near as I can tell using Tesla's network means you're no longer allowed to sue Tesla for IP related matters (mostly, but not exclusively patents). It does however leave Tesla the option to defend its own IP (ie, sue someone who made a Tesla knockoff).
If I'm a competing car company (especially one of the establish auto-makers) that's a big poison pill. Even if I'm not thinking about dipping into my patent portfolio to slow down Tesla I w
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Even if I'm not thinking about dipping into my patent portfolio to slow down Tesla I wouldn't want to put myself in that kind of asymmetrical legal position where Tesla decides I'm not "acting in good faith" but I'm not allowed to sue back.
I don't think Tesla has the power to unilaterally decide what is "good faith". Tesla can sue but the court could throw out the case if Tesla is being unreasonable about what is "good faith".
Any time you deal with a company you are at some kind of risk from that company.
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Even if I'm not thinking about dipping into my patent portfolio to slow down Tesla I wouldn't want to put myself in that kind of asymmetrical legal position where Tesla decides I'm not "acting in good faith" but I'm not allowed to sue back.
I don't think Tesla has the power to unilaterally decide what is "good faith". Tesla can sue but the court could throw out the case if Tesla is being unreasonable about what is "good faith".
Contracts are about clarity, if you clearly define "good faith" to mean "X" (which Tesla has done) then that's exactly what it means.
Any time you deal with a company you are at some kind of risk from that company. If you write an iOS app, you have to deal with Apple to put your app in the App Store.
Sure, but I don't think Apple's TOS bar you from suing Apple for patent infringement (while preventing Apple from doing the same).
If you build a car that uses Tesla's charging, you have to deal with Tesla. The question is risk/reward.
So I'm agreeing there is risk; I'm arguing that it's not as extreme as you seem to think, and I'm pointing out the reward: if Lucid worked with the Tesla charging network, then Lucid Air drivers could take advantage of Tesla Supercharger stations. IMHO that's a favorable risk/reward but you may not agree. I guess Lucid is betting that there will be enough Electrify America stations or whatever that their customers will be able to find charging. But IMHO knowing that you can find a charger when you need one is an important thing, and a Lucid Air is not as "premium" as it should be for the price specifically because charging is so important.
I could see it making sense for Lucid, though again If Lucid is hoping to be bought by another car company that Telsa agreement might turn into a poison pill. (I don't know if you're free of the agreement if you stop using the chargers).
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Let me expand a bit, since this is Slashdot and we all love to sweat the details.
With "Level 2" AC charging, there are J1772 and Tesla charging stations in the USA. As already noted, there are simple adapters allowing either type of vehicle to use the other charger. There are also NEMA 14-50 outlets at RV parks, which can be used to charge a car with a mobile charging cable.
For "Level 3" DC fast charging, there are CHAdeMO, CCS Type 1 and Tesla Supercharger. CHAdeMO is used primarily by the Nissan Leaf a
Re:Citing the Verge? (Score:4, Informative)
Do all EV vehicles have a stardard charging male/female plugging system to recharge?
There are three standards, CHAdeMO, CCS1, and Tesla.
Do they all charge at the same rate/amps/voltage, etc?
The charger is in the car, all the plug does is tell the charger how much current and voltage is available, along with safety checks to make sure nothing catches on fire. How fast the car charges depends on how much current it's charger can pull, and how much current and voltage the plug can provide.
On modern EVs, the telematics app has maps of where EV charging stations are, and can plan a road trip with planned stops at them.
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Why is the US so far behind on charging?
In Europe we have had CCS2 for a while (backwards compatible with CCS1). All cars must have CCS now, including Tesla, and Tesla has started opening its chargers up to other vehicles.
We also have much better charging networks from multiple providers, including Ionity which is backed by several manufacturers (i.e. it's a bit like Tesla's network, only better).
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Why is the US so far behind on charging?
I'm not sure what you mean. I never have a problem finding a charging station. And, I live in a medium-sized state, which means it's about as large as the UK.
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So are all these people claiming that doing longer trips in an EV is infeasible due to lack of charging infrastructure wrong?
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So are all these people claiming that doing longer trips in an EV is infeasible due to lack of charging infrastructure wrong?
Depends on where you are traveling. I have a co-worker who owns a Tesla and takes it way out into the country where there are no Tesla charging stations at all. He has to charge once at a regular charging station before driving the last 200 miles until he gets to his cabin, where he charges with a plug-in charger.
Out in west Texas, where there are signs on the highway saying there are no gas stations for hundreds of miles, I'd imagine the situation is trickier.
As long as you are near a major freeway or near
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Tesla has authentication in the protocol over the charging connector.
How many years away? (Score:3)
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How far does it tow a boat on a charge?
What is the torque numbers and how far will it go on one charge when hauling logs (Or whatever heavy stuff you have in the bed)...?
re: primary question (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, you can get a pretty decent idea of the answer by asking the Tesla folks who already tow boats, trailers and so on using a Model X.
(Rough/safe estimate is that your range is cut in half or a bit more.)
One of the problems is, EVs generally rely heavily on aerodynamics to achieve the range numbers they get. You're talking everything from purpose-designed tires to such things as the plastic "flower looking" snap-on hubcaps you see on Tesla Model 3 wheels, and of course their overall body shape.
That's great until you go and attach what's essentially an utterly NON aerodynamic box to the back of it like a typical RV camper or load of logs.
I mean, in reality, these things hurt your fuel economy and range just as badly in a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle, but they tend to compensate by coming with bigger fuel tanks. So you're paying a lot to get from point A to B with them, but you can get there without making several 30 minute long or more stops to recharge a battery pack along the way.
I don't have torque figures off the top of my head, but I can assure you electric vehicles have gobs of torque, and all of it is instantly available on-demand too. No losses going through a traditional transmission or any of that. That's the plus side of using them in a truck application.
IMO, this is also the *real* reason you saw most EV makers building small sedans and CUV type vehicles instead of full size vans, trucks, etc. You'd think going with electric would seem most useful to replace the gas guzzling big vehicles? But the cost of large battery packs still hasn't really come down quite enough yet. To keep the cost of the vehicle in the range people can still swallow, they build the ones that don't really need huge battery capacity to begin with.
For towing and replacing the full size diesel pickups with dualies and so on? I'm thinking you need battery packs with a 600+ mile stated range, and then you can get by comfortably with it getting 300-ish when doing your hauling and towing.
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"and all of it is instantly available on-demand too. No losses going through a traditional transmission or any of that. "
A traditional transmission basically loses power, not torque. A traditional transmission can effectively increase the torque to the wheels by decreasing the "actual speed" available.
Electrics will give you the same (or better) torque at any "usual" speed, more at "unusual" speeds and the power delivered to the wheels doesn't stop while changing gears (not an issue for dual clutch automati
Re: How many years away? (Score:2)
Thatâ(TM)s not what pickups are for (hauling logs & boats). Theyâ(TM)re for driving solo to the office and dropping your daughter off at soccer practice in the suburbs while still pretending youâ(TM)re a tough guy.
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The answer, basically, is:
If your truck drives 20 miles per gallon empty and 5 miles per gallon towing a boat, then an electric truck with 500 miles range will tow the boat for 120 or so miles, ASSUMING the actual speed you're pulling the boat is the same (if you lavishly engage the "SuperMegaTurbo" button on your electric truck and drive 50 mph instead of 40mph with the ICE truck, you'll just tow the boat for 80 miles - extra speed cost more than extra load).
The torque numbers - basically infinite, limited
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Mavericks don't count because they're not trucks, they're crucks like a Ridgeline or a Baja. Although the Silverado isn't necessarily a truck either, it's a skateboard. Then again, The F-150 Lightning has IRS...
suggested price of $105,000 (Score:4, Informative)
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Most high end trucks are over 90k$
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Re:suggested price of $105,000 (Score:4, Interesting)
Most trucks are used for towing. Cars don't seem to be rated for that anymore.
Most of what I put in the bed would also fit in the back of an SUV, but the back of the truck is easier. And I don't have to worry about damaging the upholstery.
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I feel it is highly unlikely that "most" trucks are actually towing things. Do you have something to back that up?
Possibly you mean that more trucks are towing things than carrying things in the bed, but that also just seems unlikely.
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Neighbor to the south has a camper and a utility trailer.
Neighbor to the north has a camper, a box trailer, and a 2 axle utility trailer. And a fancy rack so he can haul 2 snowmobiles on the back of the truck.
Neighbor to the west has an apple orchard and quite the selection of trailers and such.
Neighbor NW has a horse trailer.
Neighbor to the east has at least one trailer. I can't see through the trees, I'd have to go look.
I have a boat trailer and a camper.
If it can't pull it's useless unless it's a motorcy
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I live in the city yes and there are hundreds of pickups and zero of them are towing anything.
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It's not referring to "toy loads" like a small 750kg trailer which is all you could tow with a European car driving license. Toy loads like those, you can fit in the bed of a pickup (both by volume or by weight), or in the trunk of a large SUV (seats folded/removed).
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like a small 750kg trailer which is all you could tow with a European car driving license.
There's no such limitation in my country. Furthermore different European countries have different laws anyway.
"Wide Open Watts Mode" (Score:2)
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Peg my skull to the back of my seat mode
Finally getting it right (Score:2)
The original Chevy Volt should have been a Truck. It could have been a compromised truck, with a portion of the bed being taken up by battery, but it should have been a truck. Trying to squeeze the battery into a car at the time caused too much to be compromised. They then could have used that as their plug to sell electrification to "real America". That would have put them WAY out ahead of the competition.
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And they were killed in the C-Suite intrigue.
They say "managing a company like GM is like driving an aircraft carrier, it does not turn on a dime" That is totally wrong. If the Captain orders "set course 270" the damned ship will eventually be steaming due west. There is no such guarantee with USS GM!
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I've done work for GM. Their mindset is to wait for the market to sort itself out a bit, and pick what they think will be a lasting technology. They were late to the market with a V8 engine, but they're still using derivations of that same design nearly 80 years later. And to good end, given the recent "Just drop an LS1 in it" trend is kind of a testament to that kind of engineering.
So, I'd expect they've made some engineering decisions that they're expecting will have a high chance of becoming a long-lasti
Spontanious (Score:2)
They sold 26 cars last year. (Score:2)
Not 26 K
A grand total of one, count one, EV Hummer and 25, not even two baker's dozen, Bolts.
Volt was a beloved car for EV fans who had forgotten or did not know about how GM took back and crushed every EV1 it leased out in 1999. People formed protest lines in the wrecking yard. When companies were fighting for market share why would the deliberately kill a line that was loved so much the users? Then killed Volt again.
Then brought out Bolt, again well liked by its users. Again took i
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Probably more than 26 (Score:2)
The internet would beg to differ.
"Reuss said the company plans to build about 1,200 "Edition 1" Hummers before moving to lower-priced variations. He said GM has about 17 of those vehicles that are ready to be sent to customers." https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/1... [cnbc.com]
"Against all odds, during the third quarter Chevrolet delivered a total of 4,515 Bolt EV and Bolt EUV (counted together), which is 20.5% less than a year ago. Nonetheless, the decrease is lower than in the case of general Chevrolet sales." https://i [insideevs.com]
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I'm still holding off for a while (Score:2)
After working in a manufacturing environment, I'll never buy the 'first' product. The first version usually has a lot of issues with it and the first 10% of products off of a new manufacturing line also can have a lot of issues. It's almost never a good idea to buy the first of anything.
I do want one of these trucks though, it might be nicer if it had a 500mi range.
Designed to fail? (Score:5, Insightful)
People who want a Chevy pickup.
People who want an electric truck.
People who have $105,000 to spend on an electric pickup truck.
Am I alone in thinking that this is probably the smallest overlap in Venn diagram history?
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Except that isn't even true. GM is trying really hard to make it look true, but it's not. The top of the line Silverado is High Country. Let's compare a couple of models...
2022 2WD Crew Cab Silverado 1500 Work Truck: $37,200
2022 2WD Crew Cab Silverado 1500 RST: $47,600
2022 2WD Crew Cab Silverado 1500 High Country: $56,800
It should be a bit more clear now that they are pitching their middle-of-the-road trim as their "fully loaded" EV trim. It costs $14,000 more than a Ford F150 Lightning Platinum. Note, that
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If you can get "400 miles of range" from the base ($39,900) model, I will eat my proverbial hat.
Cringeworthy event (Score:2)
All their bs about being an EV market leader and in front in EV technology.
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All their bs about being an EV market leader and in front in EV technology.
Which honestly is true, since they sold quite a few Bolts. Does that compare to Tesla? No, but neither does anyone else by a long shot.
GM Leading the way in EVs! (Score:4, Interesting)
GM's Factory Zero produced and shipped exactly ONE (Hummer) EV last quarter.
Anybody can make a prototype and make up great looking specs.
I'll believe it when I can actually buy one and have it delivered.
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GM's Factory Zero produced and shipped exactly ONE (Hummer) EV last quarter.
Anybody can make a prototype and make up great looking specs.
I'll believe it when I can actually buy one and have it delivered.
You mean they literally just opened the factory [gmauthority.com]?
I'm not sure where you got the "exactly ONE" from however, perhaps you misheard "Edition 1" or did you just see an article about the first finished truck rolling off the assembly line?
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GM has published a lot of hype about how they are the leader in EVs.
The reality is that they are completely incompetent when it comes to actually making EVs.
Their TOTAL EV sales in 4th quarter was 26 ! That's 26, as in less than 100, not 26K. This includes 25 Bolts and one Hummer.
PR is easy. Production is hard. They are pathetically incompetent.
I would love to see them making lots of EVs but it just isn't happening.
Should have been named the MegaBolt? (Score:2)
If its designers were the same crew that gave the world the Bolt, then presumably all the owners of this new rig should expect mailed notices at some point telling them to not park within 50ft (or will it be 100ft for the bigger rig?) of anything valuable, lest it destroy that other stuff when it bursts into flames. This could end up being a pickup truck NBC news does NOT have to rig [latimes.com] with model rocket motors in order to make it burn for a sensational story.
Sorry, but until I see some other EV team demonstra
Unreliable at any speed (Score:2)
Silverado has the lowest reliability rating from Consumer Reports of all trucks. No reason to think that electrifying it will improve GM's quality control.
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