Four Fast Chargers Every 50 Miles -- US Unveils EV Infrastructure Plan (arstechnica.com) 322
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Starting this year, the federal government will begin doling out $5 billion to states over five years to build a nationwide network of fast chargers. The plan initially focuses on the Interstate Highway System, directing states to build one charging station every 50 miles. Those stations must be capable of charging at least four EVs simultaneously at 150 kW. Once states have completed the Interstate charging network, they'll be able to apply for grants to fill in gaps elsewhere. The Joint Office of Energy and Transportation, a new agency formed to help the Transportation and Energy Departments administer the program, will allow case-by-case exceptions to the 50-mile requirement if, for example, no grid connection is available nearby.
Funding for the initial Interstate portion of the program will be allocated using a formula that mimics how federal highway grants are distributed. Starting in fiscal year 2022, $615 million will be available to build charging stations, and $300 million will be allocated to set up the Joint Office of Energy and Transportation. Ten percent of each year's funding will go toward filling gaps in the network. After the initial $5 billion program is launched, another $2.5 billion in discretionary grants will be available to build chargers in rural and underserved areas.
As part of their plans submitted to the federal government, states will need to ensure that the charging stations will be reliable -- at least one charger per station needs to be working more than 97 percent of the time -- and that they will limit their impact on the electric grid. States are also directed to design stations so they can be easily expanded and upgraded as demand grows and charging rates increase. The new program also encourages states to site chargers near travel centers, convenience stores, visitor centers, or restaurants. To get credit for their Interstate build-out, states will have to install chargers that use the Combined Charging System, also known as CCS. [...] The new program also prioritizes domestic production of chargers, which has already spurred some manufacturers to begin setting up operations in the US. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg says the agency is looking at how people will pay for charging. "Part of this program is going to be a shared standard. If we're going to use taxpayers' dollars to help private actors put in charging stations, then of course we need to make sure the citizen is getting good value out of it. There may be any number of network benefits through loyalty programs. That's fine," he said, "but we've got to make sure... everybody can benefit."
Funding for the initial Interstate portion of the program will be allocated using a formula that mimics how federal highway grants are distributed. Starting in fiscal year 2022, $615 million will be available to build charging stations, and $300 million will be allocated to set up the Joint Office of Energy and Transportation. Ten percent of each year's funding will go toward filling gaps in the network. After the initial $5 billion program is launched, another $2.5 billion in discretionary grants will be available to build chargers in rural and underserved areas.
As part of their plans submitted to the federal government, states will need to ensure that the charging stations will be reliable -- at least one charger per station needs to be working more than 97 percent of the time -- and that they will limit their impact on the electric grid. States are also directed to design stations so they can be easily expanded and upgraded as demand grows and charging rates increase. The new program also encourages states to site chargers near travel centers, convenience stores, visitor centers, or restaurants. To get credit for their Interstate build-out, states will have to install chargers that use the Combined Charging System, also known as CCS. [...] The new program also prioritizes domestic production of chargers, which has already spurred some manufacturers to begin setting up operations in the US. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg says the agency is looking at how people will pay for charging. "Part of this program is going to be a shared standard. If we're going to use taxpayers' dollars to help private actors put in charging stations, then of course we need to make sure the citizen is getting good value out of it. There may be any number of network benefits through loyalty programs. That's fine," he said, "but we've got to make sure... everybody can benefit."
Government @ Work (Score:2)
Re: Government @ Work (Score:3)
"Next charge 100 miles" signs (Score:3)
Whats more, gaps where there is no grid near by? That is where you need it most!
Maybe, maybe not. These are likely to be low density low traffic areas. So chargers every 100 miles might be practical. Just have a crapload of signs warning drivers, "Next charge 100 miles" at such gap charging stations. A Tesla can get a 200 mile charge in what, 15 minutes?
We do this sort of thing with gas stations. Warning of a long drive to the next station.
Re: "Next charge 100 miles" signs (Score:2)
Not every EV is a Tesla, let alone a fully charged one. My leased 2012 Leaf SL managed only about 55 miles in the winter with the heat on.
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Not every EV is a Tesla, let alone a fully charged one. My leased 2012 Leaf SL managed only about 55 miles in the winter with the heat on.
We are discussing EVs that can replace internal combustion based cars, so a 300+ mile range is kind of a given.
As for non-Tesla's that meet this criteria I think it would just take a longer charging time. If its 30 minutes rather than 15, I think its still practical.
Re: "Next charge 100 miles" signs (Score:2)
Re: Government @ Work (Score:4, Insightful)
The expensive part of this will upgrading the power feeds, which is expected. The grandparent post is irrelevant, once the power is there swapping chargers is (relatively) cheap and quick.
Re: Government @ Work (Score:5, Interesting)
Or if they don't upgrade the feeds they can install chargers with battery packs. [greencarreports.com] Chargers aren't usually used 24/7, so many stations can get away with slow-charging stationary batteries, which then fast-charge cars that arrive.
Re: Government @ Work (Score:3)
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> Even with gasoline refueling the wait on the station having 24 pumps is 4+ cars deep for 18hrs a day
Where the actual fuck do you live that this is a thing. Seriously.
> Definitely 100% demand from the hours of 5am till midnight
Considering that the charging network that exist now us nowhere near 100% demand, I can't see having 4 charge points every 50 miles reaching 100% demand any time in the next decade. If that ever happens in my lifetime what a wonderful problem that would be, because it means the
Re: Government @ Work (Score:5, Informative)
I can't see having 4 charge points every 50 miles reaching 100% demand any time in the next decade
Man, they don't make people like you that often. Living in NYC, you have tunnel vision and can't see more than 2 feet in front of you.
Take Interstate 80 in Wyoming [state.wy.us]. For 2021, the average daily traffic is 13150. Let's assume half of those are truck (which aren't) and won't be EV. Let's assume of the other half, 25% are EVs (which according to EV proponents should be 100%). That means average daily EVs going through the state are about 1650. The stretch of I80 in Wyoming is 400 miles. Let's also assume that all EVs get 400 miles per charge (which almost none gets). That means every EV has to get a charge in Wyoming. 4 charging stations every 50 miles will get you 32 charging stations in Wyoming. Let's assume you can get a full charge in 1/2 hour (which you mostly can't), and that the traffic is constant throughout the 24 hours of a day (which it is not, and that doesn't even include peak months/holidays/etc). That means you can charge 768 cars MAX per day. You get the picture? 1650 EVs will start to line up.
Now go get accurate figures for everything I underestimated (charge time, range, traffic) and get off my lawn.
Re: Government @ Work (Score:4, Insightful)
According to your source, all you can surmise is 13,150 vehicles pass that one point on average per day. This says nothing about how far these vehicles travel, where they come from, or where they're going, which is extremely important to know.
Okay sure, I-80 is about 400 miles long. But you absolutely cannot claim that all 13,150 people that pass that one point - a junction of at least five other major highways in the middle of a city (Green River) are traveling all 400 miles.
It could be, for example, that some of them are traveling between Green River and Rock Springs, a distance of only 15 miles. We see that the node just west of Rock Springs, on the way to Green River, sees 17,712 vehicles per day, and the node just east or Rock Springs sees 11,628 vehicles per day. That's about 6,000 vehicles that travel only west of Rock Springs via I-80, meaning (if we stick only to I-80 as you did) they're traveling at most 100 miles one-way unless they're leaving the state entirely.
A 200-mile round trip is within reach of most EVs on a single charge. Variables like weather and elevation changes might be a critical factor here but at 250+ miles per charge typical it's at least plausible.
So unless and until you can actually define the actual average trip distance, rather than simply volumes at select nodes, you have failed to make a compelling argument.
=Smidge=
Re: Government @ Work (Score:3)
> with anything (I guess you think they'd shorten charge times, but... no, they wouldn't)
You just proved you dont know what your talking about. Its already been announced
Re:Government @ Work (Score:4, Insightful)
Wonder how obsolete, years late and over budget this cluster frack will be?
Considering how well private internet companies have used the nearly $1 trillion they've received in taxpayer money [newnetworks.com] to expand service to the country while at the same time reporting record profits, this should go well.
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Just about everybody from car manufacturers, to utilities to oil companies are currently installing chargers all over the place anyway. Why should taxpayer have to chip in?
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>> Who's going to voluntarily install low-use chargers in the middle of nowhere
That is exactly the absolutely wrong wayy to do it.
Install chargers that will get used, and are financeable, and, even more important in the long run, have a good incentive to be mintained.
Chargers in the middle of nowhere, that nobody uses, and that will have no maintenance is just pissing away money.
Re: Government @ Work (Score:2)
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Yeah, no need to have a lot of fast chargers everywhere.
You really need to have chargers where people park first. Slow chargers are perfectly adequate for those who park all day, so build chargers where people live and work. Charge at home, charge at work. Then install chargers where people spend significant amounts of time - amusement parks, theatres and other venues.
EVs don't need the gas station mentality where you go to a specific place to "fill up". They should be charging at home and where you spend t
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This tech works great for many people but not all people. Government should not be forcing it on us.
Re:Government @ Work (Score:5, Insightful)
I doubt the freeway system could be built with today's hate of government. (FYI, it's a government creation.)
I can't think of a highway distance more than 50 miles that does not have a gas station on it... but I've not driven on that many highways. Building this is a good idea and the demand will help drive a long needed grid upgrade and these charging stations that TAKE TIME TO USE will create a new economy along the highways. Just like the freeway system created many economies; some practically revolve around the freeway exit into their tiny town.
Instead of a nothing gas station, you can have a proper diner while people wait to charge up.
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I got modded troll either by some evil piece of shit who wants to continue our corporate oppressors' work for them, or some ignorant piece of shit who knows fuck-all about history. Either way, fuck you, you bootlicking piece of shit [wikipedia.org].
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The US government policy is it pays for new cables so customers only have to pay operating costs. It's more like a no-deliverable contract, where the company gets the money then decides how many cables to install (eg. zero). Worse, it can say it installed cables with no auditing and no threat of punishment for outright fraud.
In addition the US government also promises to pay $660/year for some customers: It doesn't take a course in economics to realize what the company does next (eg. increase the fee b
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I meant "$360/year"
Re:Government @ Work (Score:5, Insightful)
There are loads of charging stations that are "obsolete" but they're still useful. The goal is to maximize coverage with "something". In 10 years 30 minutes to charge will be a long time and super slow. But if you're nearly out of power it'll be a godsent.
I have a Tesla and Tesla v3 superchargers can handle 250kw of charging power. But I still use 50kw chargers all the time. If a 50kw charger is near a restaurant and I want to sit down and eat for an hour, it doesn't really make a difference. Yes I also seek out the 250kw chargers when I'm in a big hurry and will pass over slow "obsolete" chargers on my way to them but every charger helps the ecosystem.
Tesla's 150kw chargers (which are the minimum standard required for government funding) are plenty fast. I am more often limited by lines at Starbucks or the bathrooms not the charging speed (I think I usually stop less than 15min to charge per stop). So there really is a point at which 15min or 5 minutes... eh... whatever.
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If a 50kw charger is near a restaurant and I want to sit down and eat for an hour, it doesn't really make a difference.
Here's why. An EV's battery charges faster when it's empty and slower as it gains more charge. There's a "charging curve" and while the car is charging it displays how much power it's consuming.
At some point in the charging, the car won't even take more than 50 kW of power, so it wouldn't even matter whether the car was charging on a 50 kW charger or a 250 kW charger. If the car was clos
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So there really is a point at which 15min or 5 minutes... eh... whatever.
Industry inside information: The *average* time a vehicle spends on a forecourt is 12 minutes. People fill up, but they also piss, eat, get coffees, etc.
This is even more important for long distance driving where it's recommended to have a minimum 15min break every 2 hours to avoid driver fatigue (no driving is not relaxing, your brain is engaged in a single continuous activity 100% of the time are you are getting fatigued whether you recognise it or not).
Faster charging is the new range anxiety. Now that
Re:Government @ Work (Score:5, Insightful)
Nonsense. There may not be physical limits, but why would you pay for a 1,000 mile range battery when a 500 mi range battery will do just fine?
Also we don't need charging stations every 50 miles because we only have 50 miles of range on our battery packs... that's a strawman argument. Let me use again real world experience for why 50 miles is important.
I was on a 300 mile trip and I had a stop planned because I like the coffee shop next to a charger and they have good lunch options. So I drove 200 miles of my 280 mile trip and pulled into the charging station. Plugged in... and nothing happened. Checked the neighboring station... nothing. Was about to go into the coffee shop when someone came out and said "Hey, there is a power outage and there is no power in town right now sorry!".
Ok... I had enough range to pass a handful of charging stations, but my options were to drive back 20 miles to the last charging station or else forward 40 miles to the next charging station. Thankfully I had 40 miles of range left. But if you don't place charging stations every 50 miles then people need enough range to make it to the next charger.
That's when dense chargers are essential to avoid getting stranded, but equally important for convenience is just options. Sure your future EV may have 500 miles of range... but your bladder probably doesn't. You want high density so that when you need to stop, you can consolidate your rest stop and your charging. It's inconvenient to stop at a rest stop wait for everyone to finish and then also have to exit 30 miles later and then stop to charge. It's inconvenient when you're hungry to stop for 5-10 minutes but also then later stop\exit the interstate for 5-10 minutes to charge.
I'll use one last real world life experience. We were driving a Golf TDI with about 550 miles of range. (Probably again, what I would expect EVs to sort of settle into the maximum range). We didn't need gas and we didn't need gas... and we totally forgot that gas was even a thing to stop for. Until we were just about in the absolute middle of nowhere with the "last gas for 80 miles sign, Exit 5 miles" and we were on E... like... we didn't know how long it'd been on E empty. We pulled into the most podunk little crappy gas station that looked like you practically had to hand pump your gas and we filled the full official gas tank size and then some extra. Thank god there was a gas station only 5 miles away when we happened to notice that we were essentially totally out of gas. But if we were in an EV with 550 miles of range we would have been fucked if there wasn't a charging station within a couple miles. Now of course computers these days do a much better job of warning you about impending depletion of an EV's battery, but an unexpected headwind or any manner of issues could result in the need for charging ASAP.
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Nonsense. There may not be physical limits, but why would you pay for a 1,000 mile range battery when a 500 mi range battery will do just fine?
For the same reason you don't shop for battery differences between smartphones today. They're all about the same, as EV batteries will be in the future. Let's stop pretending that MPG isn't a massive competitive factor. Range, is the new MPG, especially when electricity ain't getting any cheaper.
And to be honest, I have far more confidence in industry squeezing efficiencies more and more to get us to a 1,000-mile battery, than I do the Government actually executing this plan.
The lack of broadband interne
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Let's stop pretending that MPG isn't a massive competitive factor.
It's important, but in the US where fuel is cheaper than it is in most of the world (with very few exceptions, in which the fuel is usually of shit quality) it's a smaller factor than it is in most places.
Range, is the new MPG, especially when electricity ain't getting any cheaper.
Range is actually way more important than MPG, because poor MPG only makes your trip expensive but poor range can make it impossible. That's why a charging network is needed.
And to be honest, I have far more confidence in industry squeezing efficiencies more and more to get us to a 1,000-mile battery, than I do the Government actually executing this plan.
States that want the money are going to have to put in the chargers. People will clamor for them to do this both so that they can use
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But if we were in an EV with 550 miles of range we would have been fucked if there wasn't a charging station within a couple miles.
You would have had to call a towtruck. Which is a real problem if you're flat broke but is otherwise just an inconvenience. Of course, if you go on a long road trip when you're flat broke and you don't plan very, very carefully, you sort of get what you get if you run out of gas/power.
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Sure your future EV may have 500 miles of range... but your bladder probably doesn't.
The range does not change the problem. Instead of taking the 250 miles charger, they will aim for the 450 miles one, and will be in the exact same situation.
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I dunno how you could "forget" to fuel up when the car makes a very loud beep as you reach the red zone with at least 50 miles of fuel left.
They specifically noted that they realized that they were on empty right before the "last gas for 80 miles" sign. So the story checks out. If they hadn't gone to that gas station, they would have run out of gas, even with a 50 mile warning.
No 1,000+ range EV, just smaller batteries (Score:3)
we will have 1,000 - 1,500 mile range in EVs in 10 years.
No we will not. We will get smaller and lighter batteries that can satisfy a 300-400 mile range. It would be better to take the lithium, or whatever, needed to make a 1,000 mile battery for one car and make three 333 mile batteries for three cars.
:-)
We could build larger gas tanks to get a 1,000 mile range, but we don't. Its not a problem that needs solving. How many Honda Civics have Chevy Suburban gas tank mods?
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You have to account for decreased winter efficiency as well as battery degradation over time. It's not unreasonable to expect range to be 750-1000 miles during summer for a new ev. That ensures in the lifetime of the car, it maintains decent range in winter weather. It's also possible that new technology will instead both decrease winter inefficiencies of evs and loss of battery capacity over time leading to less of a need for greater base range.
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we will have 1,000 - 1,500 mile range in EVs in 10 years.
No we will not. We will get smaller and lighter batteries that can satisfy a 300-400 mile range. It would be better to take the lithium, or whatever, needed to make a 1,000 mile battery for one car and make three 333 mile batteries for three cars.
OK, first off, not sure why you assume a 1,000-mile battery, automatically means "heavier". Your iPhone 13 isn't 4x heavier than the iPhone 3, but it sure as hell lasts longer.
And as far as this rollout plan is concerned, let me put it this way; What do you have more faith in happening first; Tesla making a 1,000-mile range car, or the US Government actually executing this massive plan?
This is hardly the same Government that built the US Interstate system.
We could build larger gas tanks to get a 1,000 mile range, but we don't. Its not a problem that needs solving. How many Honda Civics have Chevy Suburban gas tank mods? :-)
How many Broadband Internet Infrastructure rollout
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we will have 1,000 - 1,500 mile range in EVs in 10 years.
No we will not. We will get smaller and lighter batteries that can satisfy a 300-400 mile range. It would be better to take the lithium, or whatever, needed to make a 1,000 mile battery for one car and make three 333 mile batteries for three cars.
OK, first off, not sure why you assume a 1,000-mile battery, automatically means "heavier".
Because I am making those 333-mile batteries from the same ten-year-from-now-technology as the 1,000-mile battery. Cut that 1,000 mile battery into 3 pieces. :-)
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I think the problem is that the government in the USA does not really know how to run big projects, and corrupt companies and also politicians simply pocket the money.
The new fibre plans in Germany, are mostly government funded. Basically the cities and towns cut the area into parcels in distorted grid like parcels. Telecom construction companies can bid on a parcel for what price thy can do it. The town decides if that is reasonable, from historical knowledge about other projects (older telecom cables, pow
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not sure why you assume a 1,000-mile battery, automatically means "heavier". Your iPhone 13 isn't 4x heavier than the iPhone 3, but it sure as hell lasts longer.
A car is not a phone, that's why. You can make the phone do the same work with less energy with superior process technology, but EV motors are already very efficient, well over 95% even when used as a generator, and you literally cannot hope for the same kind of improvements in cars that you have seen in phones.
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Electric cars will go the same way they did 100 years ago: back to the junk yard.
That's an active fantasy life you have there. Even if, for some reason, BEV's were obsoleted, there's no way electric cars in general are going away. The motors are more powerful and more efficient. There's no real competition from any kind of ICE engine. There might be alternatives to batteries as a power source such as fuel cells or something else, but pretty much every car is going electric. The only exceptions are going to be classic cars that exist as mobile historical monuments.
As for your example for
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Getting a charge from roadside assistance won't be slow. SparkCharge has a portable fast-charger on a stack of batteries right now. [insideevs.com]
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you live in the last century.
Misinformation Detected (Score:5, Funny)
As required by The Social Media NUDGE Act, Slashdot's algorithm is legally required to inform the reader that the US government has the capability of completing projects that are modern, on time, and within budget.
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fact checkers have found this claim to be MOSTLY FALSE.
At least its actual infrastructure (Score:2)
Wonder how obsolete, years late and over budget this cluster frack will be?
Yes likely late and over budget, but at least its actual infrastructure so it is likely to be worth it eventually.
All highway single lanes. Garbage (Score:2)
It's already obsolete because it's a ridiculously insufficient amount of infrastructure.
4 chargers every 50 miles would not be nearly enough if all highways were limited to single lanes.
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Plus, how much will these charging station cost the user to charge their vehicle, that electricity ain;t free (even if they can get enough power and store enough solar energy) for use....
My car runs on gas.. (Score:2, Interesting)
..how do I benefit, Pete?
A few months ago, I was getting gas for my work van at Sam's Club. For whatever reason, the pumps were going extremely slow. It was probably taking roughly a minute per gallon. From what I've read about BEV fast charging times, even these slow-running pumps were still slightly more expedient than waiting for a vehicle to fast charge.
People were getting pissed. There was profanity, honking, and people yelling at each other to get out of the way so they could leave. I can't imagi
Not a real problem (Score:3)
Everyone charges their EV at home and fast chargers are merely a convenience. Why do people charge at home? Despite being slow, it only costs 1/4 the amount of using a fast charger. I only expect this to change when even low-end EVs come with at least a 300 mile range because then people living in apartments will see an EV as an option. Naturally, when there are more people using fast chargers, they will build more.
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To hear the pundits talk the nation's electrical grid is held together by duct tape and hope.
Take CA for example, there are already rolling blackouts and outages pretty frequently as is. Factor in potentially millions of people plugging in their electric car and firing up the AC at the same time?
do they think these things through, or is it just for PR?
Re:Not a real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Most charging will take place at like 3am-6am. The times when the grid has an overabundance of power and very few customers.
Most of the failures also aren't from absolute demand but from unexpected demand and an inability to respond quickly enough to a surge in demand. But with managed charging grid managers can use EVs to stabilize the grid.
Let's say you've got 100MW of capacity and suddenly a generator goes down and you lose 20MW of generation. Today what you need to do is find 20MW of generation NOW within seconds or at most minutes. So you either fire up a new generator or if literally nothing is available you just cut the power to 20MW worth of households. Those are the rolling blackouts.
Now let's say hypothetically that of that 100MW of capacity and demand 30MW of power is currently EVs charging. You have internet control over them and you give those customers discounted energy rates if they give the power company control. Need to cut 20MW of power to cover that loss of generation? No problem. 20MW of cars just stopped charging. No angry customers that their lights went out. No exorbitant charges from a methane fueled peaker plant to cover the deficit. If your EV has 300 miles of range and your commute is 40 miles... you might just be a little lower in the morning than normal and you get discounted charging because the power company didn't need to pay for the emergency peaker plant to be on standby ready to respond.
Re: Not a real problem (Score:2)
You perfectly described what my 2 Juiceboxes have been doing for years with Juicenet and PG&E
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Most charging will take place at like 3am-6am.
how do you figure that?
you don't think people will get home from work and plug in their cars right then and there?
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Most charging will take place at like 3am-6am.
how do you figure that? you don't think people will get home from work and plug in their cars right then and there?
Even though you plug your car in when you get home from work, you can tell the car to start charging at 3 AM.
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>> you don't think people will get home from work and plug in their cars right then and there?
You don't have a BEV.
BEVs have scheduled charging.
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The person whose car needs a charge should be able to set a minimum charge level they need by a certain time. They might still be pissed, but likely just because they paid through the nose for that power they needed.
Baling wire and prayers (Score:3)
To hear the pundits talk the nation's electrical grid is held together by duct tape and hope.
No, that's the Texas electrical grid.
No, that is CA. TX is using baling wire and prayers.
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>> You should try going on a road trip longer than 400 miles sometime and see what it's like
Did that.
750km on a samll 50kWh BEV against a diesel SUV doing the same trip.
Both arrived at the same time.
The guy in the diesel also needed to eat and piss. Bev chrged while eating and pissing.
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For whatever reason, the pumps were going extremely slow. .
Clogged filter.
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I might point out that almost all the BIG infrastructure that most people take for granted now and bitch/moan about being in the pockets of rich people have all started out as P
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You benefit by not having as many people in line in front of you when this happens, because other people are using the charging stations.
Hydrogen. (Score:2)
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There is literally no chance of that.
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I still think the cracking problem of Hydrogen isn't getting enough attention. If we can get a more economical model of producing hydrogen then I think you'll see it take off.
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The real problem with hydrogen is storage. If you want to store it for any period of time then it has to be cooled.
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Does this mean that if you don't drive for awhile it off-gases hydrogen as it boils away? In your garage? Could a hydrogen car blow up your house?
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For ordinary usage that is not true.
You can compress it in "special" plastic bottles to 200bar.
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States? Huh! (Score:3)
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Wouldn't it be better to give private business tax incentives to build these?
In other words, more socialism for private industry, right?
Whatever happened to the free market filling the void?
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Tax incentives are not necessarily giving money to private business. They can very well be structured so that the private business gets to keep more of their profit from the desired product. Without the product, there is no revenue and nothing to tax. With the product, there could be taxes that didn't previously exist. By letting the company not pay taxes on the newly created revenue for a set period of time, there is no loss in government tax revenue and no direct transfer of funds to industry. It's a
Re: States? Huh! (Score:2)
I'd say both approaches have a place. The government approach is a backstop. No matter where you are, if you're near an interstate, you will know there's a serviceable charger within 50 miles of you. That's peace of mind, even if you think the government chargers are terrible and avoid them like the plague.
Meanwhile, chargers for restaurants can keep advancing. In ten years you might see an ad for a fast food place include, "700KW 800V wireless charger. Order in the app, charge while U wait!" Or icons to t
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Well it worked so well with ISP's getting all that money in the 90s! /s
And here we go, more socialism. [marketwatch.com]
Isn't spending someone else's money grand?
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Sounds reasonable except.. (Score:2, Insightful)
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It will have a limited impact on the grid but that doesn't mean power companies won't have to upgrade their systems. You may not know it but they are legally required to run electricity nationwide.
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Are you trolling us? There are 47k miles of interstate in the US.
47k miles / 1 station per 50 miles = 1,000 charging stations.
1,000 stations * 4 plugs * 150kw = 600MW of demand (if they all coincidentally were used simultaneously).
The US has 1,117,475 MW of generating capacity.
600 / 1,117,475 = 0.05% increase in demand over 5 years.
Re: Sounds reasonable except.. (Score:2)
Of course he is trolling. Don't feed him.
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I probably should have read this before I did my own analysis. Yours is much more straightforward. I was looking at some upper bound on all charging that might need to be done away from home for long distance travel.
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typical fast car charger = 50 kW. Typical home power usage: around 1 kW.
That's a bit of a manipulative comparison, you're trying to make it sound like EV charging takes 50 times the power that houses do. That typical home power usage of around 1.22 kW is an average over time, whereas the charger you mention only uses that amount of power while actually charging a car. The more reasonable way to look at it is to consider how many kW the average EV consumes. The average EV gets about 2.89 miles per kWh and the average car goes about 13,500 miles per year. So that's about 4,672 kW
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That's still a lot of power, but it's not the 50:1 ratio you were trying to imply.
He did not try to imply anything. He just does not know how stuff works and was rightfully confused by his mediocre understanding
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Lolwut? Tesla and Electrify America rolled out more chargers than this will build, and you didn't even notice. But ok...
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yeah chargers that mostly sit empty. I've seen one being used at the train station in the last year, zero at the malls.
not enough. (Score:2)
Considering the recharge time and variability in models and charge rates you'll be waiting first for a charger then waiting for your vehicle to charge, it's already happening to Tesla owners during peak demand times, like holidays. [institutef...search.org]
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What BS. You literally just linked to anti-EV page.
IER is often described as a front group for the fossil fuel industry.
Everyone charges at home, it's not a real problem.
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Lots of people take road trips. That requires stopping to refill/charge along the way. This entire program is about solving that problem for EVs. Hence the every 50 miles requirement. On some busy routes (especially for holidays), there can be lines for gas stations. It will be worse when more people have EVs and the wait is 30 minutes instead of 5 for each car. Imagine having 3 cars in front of you at 30 minutes each.
It is a real problem for lots of people. Just because it's not something you would
As a North Dakota Tesla driver I welcome this (Score:3)
And that's all during the warm times of the year.
Winters are brutal here and your range gets cut in half or worse, depending on the temperature (double-digit subzero) and winds (it's ALWAYS windy at night).
Having EV Fast Chargers every 50 miles is a great cadence. I hope to see this really happen. Interstate coverage will help me when superchargers have issues, and any state highway coverage (our Highway 2 needs help) would be amazing.
But, like anything else driven by politics, I will see what actually happens.
plug standard mandated? no repair lockout? (Score:2)
plug standard mandated? no non dealer repair lockout?
5 million per charging station? (Score:2)
The interstate highway network is 50,000 miles. So that is 1000 stations needed. That works out to a capital budget of $5 million per charging station? Sounds doable, I suppose. They may also need a couple hundred grand annually to maintain each station, though that might be covered with fees.
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Ford and Chevy both use CCS, as does pretty much every other EV out there except Tesla. Tesla switched to CCS in Europe (though Europe uses a different plug), and could in the US, too. Some Tesla charger in Europe have both Tesla and CCS plugs.
CCS has won the standards battle, so that's what they're going to be using (despite Tesla having a more user-friendly plug). Tesla has a CCS adapter (not released in the US yet), so it's really universal.
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You're forgetting the standard used in Asia. Tesla uses that there.
That's the great thing about standards, there's so many to choose from.
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True, but for cars sold in any given location, there's really only one standard.
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Actually, thanks to Europe, there is a standard fast charger plug. Good, bad, or ugly, they picked a standard. I think this choice will end up defining what the US uses.
Re: Plug-in hybrid? (Score:2)
Depends how much you drive daily. Average driver does 29 miles/day. Typical net efficiency is 3.5 miles/kWh. So you need about 8 kWh. Could be 8 hours at 1 kWh. Most generators will handle that. Efficiency of charging at 120V is reduced, though.
If you have multiple vehicles or drive more than average, you might want a bigger generator. I don't think it makes economic sense to buy a large one, though. It's something you use very rarely. During a prolonged outage, you could use a taxi or rideshare. In the lon
Re: Plug-in hybrid? (Score:2)
Meant 8 hours at 1 kW.