Ford Decides It Won't Kill AM Radio After All (theverge.com) 152
Ford is reversing course on AM radio. From a report: In a tweet today, CEO Jim Farley announced the company was backing off its decision to release new vehicles without AM radio broadcast capabilities. Instead, all 2024 Ford and Lincoln models will be able to tune in to AM radio. And for the two electric vehicles released without AM radio capabilities, a software update would be pushed to restore it. The announcement came after Farley said he spoke with policy leaders on the "importance of AM broadcast radio as a part of the emergency alert system." A bipartisan group of lawmakers introduced legislation in Washington last week that would require automakers to keep AM radio in all their vehicles. The bill was proposed in response to an increasing number of vehicles coming out without the first-generation radio broadcast technology.
Backing off? (Score:5, Insightful)
Jim Farley announced the company was backing off its decision
Have you noticed that many companies do this nowadays? They throw random stuff at the wall and see what sticks. If there's backlash, then they back off.
There's nothing random about this (Score:5, Informative)
It is funny to watch the party of laissez faire capitalism once again not letting the market decide when it's convenient for them. Like how Arizona farmers are going to depend heavily on federal subsidies (which the GOP is trying to cut) that are built into the BBB Plan because they're about to be cut off from the Colorado river....
Re: (Score:2)
Which is a relatively sane behavior. They want to cut AM, and have the idea very real in the industry with an easy path to reverse in case it doesn't work out as desired. Sounds like this round they had antenna design and everything, but just soft locked out the feature to see if it could work.
The alternative for removing unneeded functionality is invasive telemetry, which is all the rage, but I'd prefer a company just try to remove a feature without being sure than spying on me to make sure I don't want
Re: (Score:2)
Waiting out the backlash is the goal now. If they pull back before any laws can get passed, that means they can try again in a few years.
Re: (Score:2)
Currently they're laughing all the way to the bank. The alt-right would like to dream that they are somehow suffering for showing a rainbow colored truck, but it's just not happening.
Re: (Score:2)
All those darn gays. We didn't have them in the good old days with Liberace and Paul Lynde.
Now only if I could go back in time and ... (Score:4, Funny)
... get Congress to threaten cell-phone makers if they didn't include broadcast FM in their handsets.
Broadcast FM works even when you can't get a cell or WiFi signal.
Re: (Score:2)
Clearly they should have included AM as well. For emergencies, you know.
Re: (Score:2)
They might have learned about it from Everclear.
Re: (Score:2)
Nokia N900. I loved that feature. The sound quality wasn't great but compared to bluetooth with SBC codec, it didn't sound any worse.
Ha really? (Score:5, Insightful)
>> "...a software update would be pushed to restore it"
So the AM hardware was already included and paid for, they just decided to disable it anyway? Soooo dumb.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, but not quite as dumb as it appears. The issue is that the electric or hybrid system generates a lot of RF noise, which AM is particularly prone to. So, instead of giving someone a noisy AM radio to complain about, or, actually fixing the RF noise issue, they just disabled it. No one will complain that it doesn't work or is too noisy.
Re: (Score:2)
It was to stop people realising that their cars are not adequately RF shielded. Their argument that nobody wants it was just a bucket of crap without the bucket.
AM is vital (Score:4, Informative)
Re:AM is vital (Score:5, Interesting)
The internet doesn't get fucked like that anymore. It's been years since the internet during an Apple keynote stream was anything other than smooth like butter. The Victoria's Secret fashion show hasn't fucked the internet in so long I don't even remember when during the year it takes place. Those are the only two events that would regularly cause internet grief outside their own streams. Hell, I'm not even sure how long it's been since I've tried to follow a link here and found the site slashdotted.
Basically, outside of DDoS attacks... and even those can be mitigated... that sort of internet fuckery is a thing of the past unless your admin/ops people are incompetent.
Re: (Score:2)
How about if a few IXPs get blown up?
Re: (Score:2)
Those are the only two events that would regularly cause internet grief outside their own streams.
Sooner or later, all the sportsing is going to be on the internet, and that's going to be a problem at least regionally.
Re: (Score:2)
Remember when that Cloudflare data center had a hiccup and a major portion of the Internet just vanished? How many times have ships dragged their anchors through a fiber line and knocked an entire country offline for a week or two?
The Internet is way more centralized than it used to be, and isn't anywhere near as resilient as we like to believe. Just because video streaming is faster and smoother these days doesn't mean the traffic will always be reliable.
Re: (Score:2)
AM radio is critical. It has a long range and you can have an essentially infinite number of receivers.
This is so old school and deprecated. Nowadays modern systems use one dedicated connection for each listener so we can easily track what every listener is doing. That's why we trashed Mbone/ IP multicast as well since we couldn't track and spy on users. Also, it was a way too efficient infrastructure and we can't have that. Bloat is always better profit wise!: /s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
There will be situations (Score:2)
Re: There will be situations (Score:2)
I don't have a car you insensitive clod!
Re: (Score:3)
The control processors would still be running. They are part (not all) of the problem. Anything that generates a square wave (and all digital computers do) can theoretically generate infinite harmonics.
Re: (Score:2)
Software Defined Radio (Score:2)
My guess is that most, if not all, radios in cars are simply SDR so keeping AM is as simple as programming it in. The software updates for the two cars that don't have AM currently proves this point nicely. Chances are they were going to charge a monthly fee for AM radio sometime in the future. Taking cues from BMW. Twenty years from now AM and FM will probably be targets in favor of Internet, satellite, or whatever tech car makers come up with to lock down their cars for profits.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
If you have a strong AM station, just about any antenna including just the wires leading to the antenna jack are sufficient. Part of the robustness of AM is that even the crappiest improvised receiver can be good enough.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Strong AM signals are a lot more common than strong FM signals due to propagation characteristics of the band they're in.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually it's the inverter converting poewer between the batteries and the motor that is the issue. The switching creates electrical noise across a very wide band and designs to mitigate it and filter what's left to below where it clobbers AM radio can substantially increase costs.
But they need it anyway, because ig also clobbers reception in nearby cars, buildings, and pedestrian's portables,
Re: (Score:2)
We are talking about a layer of foil right? If not, just how much EM emissions are we talking about and should I be advising someone with a pacemaker to sit in my car?
Why kill it? (Score:2)
How is this a cost savings measure (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Does Ford make radios? (Score:3)
What happened to DIN slots? I put whatever radio I want into my car.
Re: (Score:2)
I thought that the D in DIN stood for Deutsch
its a German standard.
Re: (Score:2)
GM at least has tied so much into their stock radio you really can't replace it.
They're dying Jim (Score:2)
Ford stock is below $12/share.
Their dealer lots are full of their best-seller, the F150 which has a base MSRP of just over $52K.
They've laid off their mainline production workers and white-collar staff in droves.
They're dying, pinning their hopes on EVs that aren't selling well at all.
AM Radio? It won't save them one way or another.
When you can't get people financed and others who are more rational balking at $1000+ car payments, you have a problem.
Ford, Dodge/Ram/Jeep (Stellantis), GM all have sales proble
Re: (Score:2)
It's the one thing Tesla did right, they got rid of the dealers ... this keep the price down (they are still overpriced, but not as much as they could be)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Bowwing down (Score:4, Insightful)
You... you actually think that liberals don't bash the other side anytime they can? And don't get angry (just say the name 'Trump' and watch the steam come out of their ears), never show even a hint of racism (check your privilege, you biased-from-birth white people), and consider us all one big happy family (no 'us-vs-them' rhetoric)?
Really? How did you even come to that conclusion?
Re: (Score:3)
Not at all. I'm saying they don't have the single-minded level of determination necessary to make liberal talk radio succeed.
Both sides share their biases. But the conservatives are far more focused and determined, and the liberals lack the will.
idiot (Score:5, Informative)
Re:idiot (Score:5, Interesting)
IIRC, the reason that AM is a concern is that some of the electric motors are a problem interference wise on those frequencies. Now perhaps some warning that noise on AM band is expected or something, but I think they were hoping to not have to deal with it and just be quiet.
One point of concern would be that if some disaster did happen, you need the populace to think to listen to their AM radio in their car, which may or may not be a convenient place. If AM is so important, you'd think there'd be a stronger push for, say, handheld AM radios and awareness.
Re:idiot (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Then it appears that the AM radio was just the canary in the coal mine....I'm guessing that if the EVs are so poorly shielded they mess with AM radio, they're going to be messing with
Re: (Score:2)
I'm guessing that if the EVs are so poorly shielded they mess with AM radio, they're going to be messing with a LOT of other electronic devices they come close to.
As long as the "LOT of other electronic devices" work int the same frequencies that are affecting the AM radios that is true but there are also a lot of electronic devices that aren't affected by those frequencies. Unless the device needs to communicate at AM radio frequencies then it would be a simple matter of shielding the device against those frequencies (at least as simple as shielding the EVs from sending out the frequencies anyway)
Re: (Score:2)
If I understand correctly, EV electro-magnetic noise is caused by the rapid switching of the high-power pulse-width modulating variable frequency dri
Re: idiot (Score:2)
Ford had the same thought about gas tanks in the crown Vic
Re: (Score:2)
From my cynical viewpoint, the EM problem is not some Manhattan project difficult conundrum to solve. It will cost money to design and fix. To me, Ford does not want to spend that money when it offers little return on investment in their eyes. They would rather spend that money on things like subscription services that generates money.
Re: (Score:2)
Claim vs Reality (Score:4, Insightful)
IIRC, the reason that AM is a concern is that some of the electric motors are a problem interference wise on those frequencies.
That is certainly what they have claimed. However, if that were true then it would take more than a software update to re-enable AM radio in the EV models that were already released without it so that claim is not consistent with the evidence.
Re: (Score:2)
It depends, options are:
-They will enable via software, but the interference will be audible. This may be an experience they thought would be better off turned off than dealing with complaints about AM audio quality. So we may be seeing another phase of 'see if low quality AM is good enough.
-They had done engineering work, but skipped some QA work on AM audio and so they wouldn't be *sure* it would work right, and a belated QA effort revealed it to not be the problem they were afraid of.
-This round of disa
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
IIRC, the reason that AM is a concern is that some of the electric motors are a problem interference wise on those frequencies.
That is certainly what they have claimed. However, if that were true then it would take more than a software update to re-enable AM radio in the EV models that were already released without it so that claim is not consistent with the evidence.
Agreed. Personally I would be surprised if it was Sirius XM behind this, ultimately.
"Since we're facing increased competition from streaming apps you - understandably - have no sane choice but to support in your cars, we will be forced to reduce your share of subscription proceeds by one nanopenny per month per vehicle. But... if you were to eliminate AM as a competitor today, we could forestall that reduction until say... 2030. At which point we could offer a further extension if something unfortunate
Re: (Score:2)
Remember they used to (maybe still do) have signs on freeways saying "Tune to channel 1234.5 for traffic news"?
Also it's AM. Just scan the dial until you pick up a signal. That's how we used to find channels in the old days. It's how I still find channels on FM (just last week even when traveling).
Handheld AM/FM radios are a thing, including handheld with a crank to power it, some with solar. A popular item to stick into emergency or travel kits.
Some states still make more use of AM than others given the
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If AM is so important, you'd think there'd be a stronger push for, say, handheld AM radios and awareness.
1) Why would there need to be a stronger push when AM is already in existing cars? 2) The government already recommends people get handheld multiband radios that can be hand crank powered for emergencies.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you believe that anybody born in the last 30 years, when faced with a disaster and broken communication networks, is going to think to go to AM radio?
Re:idiot (Score:5, Insightful)
Well....
I guess the ones with a better chance of survival will.
People in natural disaster prone areas (and well, a LOT of the US has 1 type or another risk for natural disasters)....know this and when evacuating, they tune in, especially when everything else is down and news is hard to get.
Remember, cell towers are usually the first thing to go just after power....and FM and others can't transmit as far into "dead zones" as AM can.
It isn't like this is going to add thousands of dollars to an already expensive car you know.
Are you afraid of options for some reason?
You'd prefer to limit your options for some reason?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, it appears a lot of the problem is, the EV makers are not sufficiently shielding things like they should....
So, even if the AM radio isn't in the car and you have a portable one....you still will have problems listening to it when on the road d
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I actually did use my car radio when I had to evacuate from the Oroville dam crisis.
Nearly all of the FM stations were broadcasting emergency information.
The AM stations were broadcasting prerecorded church sermons, latino music, and conservative talk radio. Only one station had emergency info and it was just a simucast of their FM sister station.
I gather it's a larger expense than folks think (Score:3)
It's not just that people are going to want AM Radio to work, it's that they're gonna want it to work as well as it does in their gas powered cars & trucks. Making that happen is the expensive part. If I had to guess it means a lot of very expensive shielding.
Re: (Score:2)
If they're messing with AM radios, then I'm guessing they're so poorly shielded they're a threat to other electronic devices they come close to too.
Re: (Score:2)
Correct. Generating that level of electrical interference is supposed to be illegal. The FCC jumped all over computers for that back in the time of the Apple II. And that was a 35 w power supply.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: idiot (Score:2)
Short wave is AM radio, as are medium and long wave. AM means "amplitude modulation", and it is used for SW, MW and LW. MW is probably the most common frequency range used for AM these days, although when I was growing up it was always BBC Radio for LW that my parents had on.
Re: (Score:3)
"You can hear a lighting strike on AM radio"
and if you count seconds (one one thousand, two one thousand...) and when you hear the thunder multiply by 333 metres to get the distance.
(somebodys sig mentioned that light travels faster than sound)
Re: idiot (Score:2)
I too was in the 2003 blackout. Want to know what I did? Go sailing with friends for 3 hours and then drive slowly home. By the time I got home power was being restored.
I had a great time. We had music on the boat, and by then the FM radio stations had their generators on.
The big lesson is cell companies started buying generators for their towers.
Now a days you can have a solar/battery cell tower to fill in the gaps.
Re: (Score:3)
Where was this blackout? What country? City?
If it was only 3 hours, sounds almost like a non-event.
I'm talking more about say a hurricane comes and knocks down transmission lines and you have a major city and all surrounding suburbs without power for over a month.. (Hurricane Ida and the New Orleans area).
Now THAT....is what living in a
Re: idiot (Score:2)
The 2003 northeast blackout happened in early evening hours and knocked out power to the northeast USA and parts of southern Canada. Someone brought a major generator system online at the wrong frequency and everything dropped. And the remaining bits got overloaded and they dropped.
People stuck in elevators and subways NYC in total darkness etc. As they had to bring things back slowly
Physical damage not so much but everything went down. Tv radio cable internet etc. All on a hot summer day.
55 million peop
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I would think that people born 31 years ago are worth considering? Do we ignore AM as an emergency communication system merely because teenagers don't use it?
"Fires are burning all over the hills outside the house, but I've been on TikTok all day and it still hasn't told me what to do!"
Re: (Score:2)
No, but I used 30 years as an easy benchmark. I'm 52 and there's a good chance somebody else would have to prod me into turning on the radio.
Re: (Score:3)
I would. And you should too.
The absolute best cell tower range is 50 miles tops, and that if it's not being hammered by hundreds to thousands of people trying to call loved ones or lookup whats going on, which will most likely take it out before range does.
FM while it's at least one way communication so it has less of a chance to go down, can typically go only 50-200 miles tops since it's mostly line of sight.
AM using skywave at night can eclipse 1000+ miles easily at 50kw. And that not just a blip of a cal
Re: (Score:3)
I believe the reason was very clearly stated by the manufacturers. Any AM radio use was seen as a net loss for satellite radio subscriptions. I mean, it's the same reason businesses use for every asinine decision. Profit.
disasters (Score:2)
I don't mind that AM radio will continue to have crappy reception in EV's. In fact, Ford etc might as well throw up a notice on the screen that it's intended for emergency use only and sorry but tough luck about the bad reception.
People seem to have short memories that AM radio is quite useful for emergency broadcasting. Ten or so years ago there was a big power outage in Southern California and the only station on the air was a single AM radio station that apparently had a government grant for emergency ge
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny thing, the other day I wanted to listen to a baseball game. I was getting crappy reception on FM, so I switched to the broadcast's AM signal (simulcast). It was perfectly clear and had better sound quality (for that sort of broadcast anyway).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In other words, plenty wide for voice. That's why I specified for that sort of broadcast. The lack of odd distortion and buzzing sounds was nice.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
For emergency use you only need static filled talk radio, hi fidelity music is a non-issue. AM radio costs less than a dollar in an automobile, and if it's an EV with a software radio it's nearly free.
It may be obsolete but it's actually in use in some deep rural areas as the only stations you can pickup.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They are caving to the most idiotic and backwards people in this country.
Congress?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The olds and dumbs got to be able to tune into there poor quality show
Yep, I guess we can'ts be geniuseses like you...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I wager that either:
-This was a test, the system did all the RF engineering and including antenna, but disabled the usage to *see* if a future iteration could skip AM testing
-They didn't want to do some AM testing and only after the backlash did they do the testing to validate the system could work
-There will be some reception/quality issue if you opt to use AM because they have interference
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe the EV companies should do "proper" EM shielding like any electrical product producing company should be doing anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
It's an issue of proximity. The interfering signals from the EV is within a few feet of the receiver. That's the issue.
Re: (Score:2)
+1 thought the same when I read it...
Re: (Score:2)
If they were smart they would actually be worrying about broadcast. There aren't very many AM listeners, and those are dying off. The number of AM stations is decreasing, and will go down faster as the audience decreases.
Re: (Score:2)
I have both an 80 GB Art Bell C2C/Midnight in the Desert archive AND multiple AM radios. You can too.