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Reddit Communities With Millions of Followers Plan To Extend the Blackout Indefinitely (theverge.com) 236

Posted by BeauHD from the more-action-is-needed dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Moderators of many Reddit communities are pledging to keep their subreddits private or restricted indefinitely. For the vast majority of subreddits, the blackout to protest Reddit's expensive API pricing changes was expected to last from Monday until Wednesday. But in response to a Tuesday post on the r/ModCoord subreddit, users are chiming in to say that their subreddits will remain dark past that 48-hour window. "Reddit has budged microscopically," u/SpicyThunder335, a moderator for r/ModCoord, wrote in the post. They say that despite an announcement that access to a popular data-archiving tool for moderators would be restored, "our core concerns still aren't satisfied, and these concessions came prior to the blackout start date; Reddit has been silent since it began." SpicyThunder335 also bolded a line from a Monday memo from CEO Steve Huffman obtained by The Verge -- "like all blowups on Reddit, this one will pass as well" -- and said that "more is needed for Reddit to act."

Ahead of the Tuesday post, more than 300 subreddits had committed to staying dark indefinitely, SpicyThunder335 said. The list included some hugely popular subreddits, like r/aww (more than 34 million subscribers), r/music (more than 32 million subscribers), and r/videos (more than 26 million subscribers). Even r/nba committed to an indefinite timeframe at arguably the most important time of the NBA season. But SpicyThunder335 invited moderators to share pledges to keep the protests going, and the commitments are rolling in. SpicyThunder335 notes that not everyone will be able to go dark indefinitely for valid reasons. "For example, r/stopDrinking represents a valuable resource for a communities in need, and the urgency of getting the news of the ongoing war out to r/Ukraine obviously outweighs any of these concerns," SpicyThunder335 wrote. As an alternative, SpicyThunder335 recommended implementing a "weekly gesture of support on 'Touch-Grass-Tuesdays,'" which would be left up to the discretion of individual communities. SpicyThunder335 also acknowledged that some subreddits would need to poll their users to make sure they're on board. As of this writing, more than 8,400 subreddits have gone private or into a restricted mode. The blackouts caused Reddit to briefly crash on Monday.
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Reddit Communities With Millions of Followers Plan To Extend the Blackout Indefinitely More

Reddit Communities With Millions of Followers Plan To Extend the Blackout Indefinitely

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  • Open mouth, insert foot. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Frobnicator ( 565869 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:19PM (#63600374) Journal

    His attitude and quotes practically guarantee an escalation. Writing "more is needed for Reddit to act" is an open invitation.

    • Re:Open mouth, insert foot. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Tough Love ( 215404 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:23PM (#63600390)

      Adding a new chapter to the "how to not handle a PR crisis" book.

    • So is it a real quote, or a redditism? By which I mean a quote that is taken out of context or completely fabricated to vilify the enemy.

      It's not in the memo [theverge.com]

      Here the phrase does appear [reddit.com], in a post by somebody on r/Save3rdPartyApps who I presume is not the CEO of anything.

    • The one thing going for Spez is that there really doesn't seem to be a real competitor for Reddit for people to switch to. Digg (as a social forum) is dead, Facebook doesn't really work for posting content semi-anonymously, and sites like Twitter and DIscord don't really work for long-form content.

      The new decentralized/federated sites all seem to be a disorganized mess, and "legacy" tech discussion forums like HardOCP and Slashdot are really only used by the 40+ crowd who refused to go to Reddit when it bec

      • Slashdot are really only used by the 40+ crowd who refused to go to Reddit when it became popular.

        So...what is this "Reddit" thing....?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kelbear ( 870538 )

        Yeah, the federated sites are a lot less intuitive than Reddit. I feel like the kbin one is a lot more reddit-like in look and feel though, maybe it'll get there someday, but I don't know if it's good enough as a substitute today.

        Can the federated social media system scale to handle something like Reddit's volume? Technologically, I'm guessing that it can, but does the model impose costs on instance owners in a way that'd be impractical for them to scale to that kind of volume?

    • His attitude and quotes practically guarantee an escalation. Writing "more is needed for Reddit to act" is an open invitation.

      That was the reddit moderator saying we need to do more to get Reddit to act, it wasn't an invitation for escalation by the CEO.

  • Stop digging (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ziest ( 143204 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:31PM (#63600422) Homepage

    My grandfather used to say "First step in getting out of a hole is to stop digging" I'm guessing this guy does not understand that the people who post to Reddit are the ones creating content for free. I have just stopped going to Reddit, other should do the same. When the big wigs notice a drop in traffic maybe, just maybe, they will rethink their position.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Xenx ( 2211586 )

      I'm guessing this guy does not understand that the people who post to Reddit are the ones creating content for free.

      I'm not against the protest, far from it, but these kinds of comments are flawed. It's a two-way street. Reddit provides the service and the users, in exchange, provide the content. Both parties need to be appeased. While it's true the users don't technically need Reddit, there is a derth of comparable replacements at this time.

      • Re:Stop digging (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Junta ( 36770 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:07PM (#63600526)

        Digg thought much the same, and that didn't turn out well for them.

        Reddit is far from a technological marvel, a competitor is mostly a matter of consensus.

        Meanwhile, reddit could probably come up with a nuanced approach that gets reddit pretty much what it wants while also giving the community what it wants. A tiered API pricing structured, special consideration for select applications and users, in exchange for some validation that blessed applications are properly presenting Reddit advertising and not using their API to supply marketing research material.

        Of course, there's every chance that if they wait a couple of weeks the moderators will get over it and largely come back. Though a company that's entire existence is based on the goodwill of a big internet community is taking a dubious risk to avoid thinking hard.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hazem ( 472289 )

          I'm glad you mention Digg because they did pretty much the same thing by crapping all over the users who made the place worth going to. I guess that website's still there, but is anyone but bots actually using it?

          Sure, /r/pics, /r/funny, and /r/news will keep going but I know the mods and main contributors of a lot of specialty subreddits are likely done if this doesn't get resolved in a good way. At that point, what you have left is Digg, since for most people I know, it's the specialty subreddits (like

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Xenx ( 2211586 )
          Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying people can't/won't replace Reddit. I'm saying we're currently lacking. I was only trying to make the point that users of a platform also rely upon the platform.

        • while also giving the community what it wants. A tiered API pricing structured

          And see this is just a misunderstanding. The community doesn't want a tiered API pricing structure. They want a sensible functioning app to use reddit. The API is a symptom not a cure. The blackout here isn't about APIs or pricing, it's about the loss of functionality for an end user. If Reddit's app didn't suck balls in the first place Apollo likely wouldn't exist.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Junta ( 36770 )

            Well, there's also the bots, as far as I understand, which would also be tied to the API.

            The least complex path to a functioning app while preserving reddit's perceived business opportunities would ultimately be API pricing structure that makes the popular applications feasible with strings attached so they can audit the user experience/branding/use of their APIs. Far easier to let the apps stand than *try* to compete with them. The try to compete with them is tricky enough under the best conditions, but r

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by flink ( 18449 )

          Reddit is far from a technological marvel, a competitor is mostly a matter of consensus.

          Any site that successfully competes with Reddit will face the same problem as Reddit: the more popular you are, the more your hosting costs rise. If ads aren't enough or you want to protect your users from predatory monetization, you are going to be a victim of your own success. We still haven't solved how to fund a large content generating site in an ethical manner.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Junta ( 36770 )

            One possibility is that any sufficiently successful site attracts investors, and going to far in with investors causes untenable demands.

            Here we have a case that is reddit trying to prep for a public offering. They probably have the screws on them from investors to do what investors *think* is the best path to have a successful IPO (that's likely their time to cash out). They've taken over a billion from various investors over the year. They may have a viable operational model for steady state operation

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        I'm not against the protest, far from it, but these kinds of comments are flawed. It's a two-way street. Reddit provides the service and the users, in exchange, provide the content. Both parties need to be appeased. While it's true the users don't technically need Reddit, there is a derth of comparable replacements at this time.

        The value of Reddit is in the users and the content they provide. Because right now, Google's become absolutely useless. If you have any issues, the first few search results usually

  • EXCELLENT! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:36PM (#63600440) Journal

    Good.

    The 48-hour blackout was a warning, and since the Powers That Be at Reddit refuse to listen to their own users, it's time to show them that people aren't fucking around.

    If that fails, time to burn the place to the ground.

    After a week or two of a blackout, many users just won't come back, ever. Some will, of course, but many won't. And that'll be the beginning of the end for Reddit.

    • since the Powers That Be at Reddit refuse to listen to their own users

      The users aren't making decisions. A few noisy moderators are. That's the thing here. Reddit hasn't noticed a loss of users. Most of them would log in and not even realise that r/favouritething isn't showing up their feed.

      No one is burning anything to the ground. In fact that the servers were struggling under the load of errors generated by users making requests for private groups show that users were still in fact trying to use reddit. The loss of r/aww isn't the loss of 34 million redditors. It's simply 3

      • That's the thing here. Reddit hasn't noticed a loss of users.

        I'm pretty sure they have.

      • When you do a search a lot of results often are for reddit pages, the search engines are still sending 'users' there even though a bulk of those pages are now locked private. Given enough time if the search engines actually update to reflect the lack of content the user base will dwindle as results stop sending 'users' to no-content pages.

    • Nah. Most of those communities will just be replaced. And it's not as if Reddit can't simply remove all mods of the most popular subs and replace them with their own mods.

  • Protocols not Platforms (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:45PM (#63600464) Homepage Journal

    If it's not this bad decision it'll be the next.

    Use distributed forums instead of Reddit.

    • Use distributed forums instead of Reddit.

      You mean like USENET?

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by dknj ( 441802 )

        USENET server operators were attacked for hosting child pornography. Then more child pornography appeared on other newsgroups that were not banned, including popular ones. At that point, many usenet providers decided to stop providing. Google implemented filters and that really marked the end of usenet. USENET will never come back due to this specific moderation problem

    • Distributed forums, you say as you post to Slashdot... #IronyDetector

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Halo5 ( 63934 )

      > Use distributed forums instead of Reddit.

      This seems to be where everyone is headed, namely Lemmy and federated space...

    • Use distributed forums instead of Reddit.

      Logging into hundreds of different websites to read targeted special purpose information is not a substitute for reddit. Reddit isn't a collection of forums, it's a social media page, a rainbow unicorn vomit of posts from a complete mishmash of sources filling up a feed.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:47PM (#63600468)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by RJFerret ( 1279530 )

      I'm dubious that's the case as the majority of users don't even know there's a protest, don't use alternative apps, and the protest process is to hide, so the main feed serves folk's usual content, with ironically fewer distractions--the signal to noise ratio has improved.

      Many of the questions have been, "there are other apps!?" "What protest?" "Why?" "I've been kicked from X dark sub, so am sharing here instead" (the last not a question but reaction obviously).

      Come tomorrow it'll be biz as normal. Folk

    • Seems like this is a problem that will solve itself as users create new subs to replace the ones with stubborn moderators. If you ask me, purging Reddit of some of their power tripping idiots is actually a good thing.

      • If you ask me, purging Reddit of some of their power tripping idiots is actually a good thing.

        Agreed.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by msk ( 6205 )

        Why are you on my lawn?

    • Also CNN seems in the same ballpark right now (Warner Bros Discovery CEO David Zaslav trying to right-tack it in the last year, puppeting through head Chris Licht, then firing him last week).

      Lot of really batshit direction calls from the billionaire media class at the moment. Maybe they just lost their minds in the AI jolt.

    • But neither is dead. Mastodon has not replaced them, nor has anything else. Why don't the communities move to the fediverse and effect real change? Same game for the developers using the Reddit API; why don't they make tools to improve the experience on Mastadon so it can compete?

      It is like a bunch of bitching little kids sometimes. The power comes not from crying, although that can be a good distraction; it comes from the secondary actions you take.

    • The key reason most of the things you mention failed was that there was a place people could flock to when their former preferred site faltered. Digg is the perfect example here, when Digg crumbled, people had Reddit to go to and Digg was done for because once they were there, they did not return.

      Unless there is somewhere to go now that Reddit is wavering, people might actually return when the storm settles. This is going to be decisive now because now, and only now, you can get people to jump ship. If, and

    • This is a great point. It feels to me like a chapter of the internet is closing before our eyes. Sites like Twitter and Reddit were built on the community spirit of the early internet but had consolidated a the traffic and content into a centralized platform. It seems to totally elude the tech bros who are currently running these companies that the community spirit is the primary thing that makes the site worth going to.

      Community stuff is rewarding but also a giant pain in the ass - if you've ever been to

  • I called it :) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:08PM (#63600530)
    I said if the 2 day black out didn't work the only thing that would is an indefinate blackout.

    For those saying "Reddit will just take over" that's what the protestors want.

    Reddit is only profitable at all because of hundreds and hundreds of hours of free labor from unpaid mods. Go look at the shit show [latimes.com] that is post Musk layoffs Twitter if you doubt me. Twitter's on track to make $888 million this year with $1.5 billion in interest payments alone.

    The question, of course, is does Reddit need the mods more than the mods need Reddit. i.e. how addicted to modding are the Reddit mods?

    The folks doing the indefinite blackouts aren't. Addicts that is. What they're doing is daring Reddit to take over their forums and force them back open.

    When (if?) Reddit does that it's over. Other mods jump ship fast, and Reddit won't have the cash to replace them with paid employees. Not with a pending IPO.

    • Some subs would be significantly improved without mods hanging over every word posted and making users play stupid games like "We only allow those sort of posts on Thursdays, didn't you read the rules? BAN!"

      TBH, Reddit is really only fun for the shitpost subs. Can't have any sort of actual discussion on topics like politics, because the moment you run afoul of the groupthink you get modded into oblivion. If you really manage to piss off some incel Redditors, they'll mod down your unrelated posts in other

      • it's a good story. Couple guys walk into a bar, bar tender tells them to get the fuck out, now. A Journalist sitting at the bar ask why he did that.

        Bartender says he recognizes the patches on their jacket and their Nazis. Journalists ask, why not let them drink, they weren't doing anything.

        Bartender says "Sure, they're polite, but you let them in and they bring some of their friend, and those guys aren't so polite. Pretty soon they bring more friends and they start wearing the patches everyone tell

  • Seems to me that (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MeNeXT ( 200840 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:08PM (#63600532)

    The attitude that the Reddit CEO is exhibiting is the same attitude Reddit moderators have. If you disagree with their opinion it's a ban. Your account is locked out.

    The problem today is that many, if not most, see things as black or white. Good or bad. There is no tolerance for a different opinion when in fact there are many shades of grey. So we have a knee jerk reaction that imposes someones will on another. In order for Reddit to work it needs a synergy of company, moderators and users. It also needs to learn that all need to respect one another.

    Personally I feel Reddit should fail because it's not about an honest discussion. If you disagree with the moderators and have valid points you get banned with no recourse. It encourages and rewards bullies.

    • The attitude that the Reddit CEO is exhibiting is the same attitude Reddit moderators have. If you disagree with their opinion it's a ban. Your account is locked out.
      The problem today is that many, if not most, see things as black or white. Good or bad.

      Reddit gives you the options of ban or not. Consequently the decision always comes down to ban or not.

      In order for Reddit to work it needs a synergy of company, moderators and users. It also needs to learn that all need to respect one another.

      That is the kind of stupid feel good nonsense that leads to nothing getting done and everything failing. You cannot always seek consensus. Sometimes people will disagree on what is fundamentally acceptable. That's why the subreddit model works.

  • FFS Reddit Owns Their Code and Site (Score:3)

    by theshowmecanuck ( 703852 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:16PM (#63600562) Journal

    Why do people try to make a business model on accessing someone else's software? I worked for a company that had clients that asked us to build something like that for Facebook. And the APIs would change regularly and break how the developed app worked, and then people in the office would be shocked and complain about Facebook changing their own APIs. Make your own Facebook or Reddit if you have a good enough idea. Let me guess, you can't afford to pay the server fees and bandwidth. But you're OK sponging off someone else.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      Why do people try to make a business model on accessing someone else's software?

      Because Reddit provided the access. What is being protested is "Reddit's expensive API pricing changes", according to TFS. So this implies that said access is a part of Reddit's business model as well.

      But yeah. People are at the mercy of the only company with access once your data is in their system. Don't like it? Build your own. Or move your business to 4chan.

    • Why do people try to make a business model on accessing someone else's software?

      You have fundamentally missed the point.

      1. This isn't about a business model. Reddit mods aren't standing in solidarity with app writers, they are lamenting on the loss of tools that they have and the fact that Reddit provided ones are garbage. The app writers aren't running some critical business. They wrote and app and distributed it for free.

      2. What makes accessing someone else's software special? No business exists in isolation. It all works on the infrastructure and service of others. Are you asking wh

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Xyrus ( 755017 )

      The APIs provide ways for the people who contribute to Reddit FOR FREE to manage the content that others provide FOR FREE. Reddit, not those who manage and/or contribute content to Reddit, are the ones sponging off the user base.

      The exorbitant pricing structure now means that the people who are managing/contributing content to Reddit FOR FREE will now have to pay exorbitant fees or go back to trying to use Reddit's unusable and/or broken tools to do so.

  • Alternatives (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jiilik Oiolosse ( 717106 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:44PM (#63600618)
    I moderate one significant sub on reddit, and we didn't take it down. However, we've also been trying to figure out what our alternatives are. And there aren't any that are a perfect match. The closest I've found so far is Lemmy -- which largely replicates the old-reddit/hackernews experience, but it is federated (which confuses a lot of people). I set up a few communities on lemmy.ca (the Canadian node on the federated network), but I've no idea if users will follow. Feels like the digg exodus 2.0, except when everyone fled digg, reddit was already a viable option and the consensus pick. This hasn't happened this time.

  • I miss my subreddits (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lovelander ( 754497 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @09:50PM (#63600728)
    All the subreddits I regularly read have gone private. The ones left are just rant reddits. I be spending a lot less time on reddit now.

    • Re:I miss my subreddits (Score:4, Insightful)

      by hazem ( 472289 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:46PM (#63600822) Journal

      Same here... many are specialty/technical subreddits modded by experts in their field, where they contribute a lot and help a lot of people with their problems. They're the main reason I'm on reddit, since you can get cat pics and memes anywhere. It's looking like a lot of the ones I follow are planning to close up shop and find somewhere else to help people.

      It's ironic to me since Reddit got a huge boost about 11 years ago when Digg went stupid. Now they're doing the same thing. Other than the number of users, Reddit doesn't really offer anything that's not easily replaced. And as the push the true content creators off the site, all they'll have left is all the stuff you can get anywhere else.

      It's sad because when I search technical questions on say google, I often add "reddit" to the query since those were often the best answers.

  • Reddit will just take away the button. Your subreddit is either public or private when you create it. Or they'll make it sticky, where changing it is restricted to once every three months.

    • Then I go dark by simply deleting everything anyone posts for the blackout period. Or do you plan to take away modding abilities, too?

  • I don't know much if some apps on Reddit are a necessity at all. Hear these are culprit for what's happening.
    What is clear though, is that saboteurs had too much of privilege delegated to them.

  • "Arguably" to worst time to what, shut the fuck up about NBA?

    Seasons done, time to set down your NBA flags, and banners and pickup your baseball gear, so you can sit there in your fake althetic gear, sweating in the heat, and imagine the day when you were an athletes, in Highschool with the delusions of a future in sports.

    Personally I think Reddit should start declaring threads dead and begin the purge. Goes for user accounts as well.

    It might incentivize a few to dream big of launching their own servers, bu

  • For the same reason as the old Digg. Again.

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