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DuckDuckGo CEO Says It Takes 'Too Many Steps' To Switch From Google (bloomberg.com) 81

Posted by msmash from the my-way-or-highway dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: DuckDuckGo, a privacy-centric search engine founded about 15 years ago, has languished with a small market share as consumers face difficulties switching from Google when the behemoth is the default option on computer screens, the upstart's founder said in an antitrust trial. Founded in 2008, DuckDuckGo currently has about a 2.5% share of the market for search in the US, said CEO Gabriel Weinberg, and conducts about 100 million searches a day globally. In comparison, Google conducts several billion searches daily.

Weinberg said about 30% to 40% of DuckDuckGo's users have a "strong preferenceâ for privacy and that most of the company's users switch over from Google." The company considers Google to be "far and away" its biggest competitor. "Switching is way harder than it needs to be," Chief Executive Officer Gabriel Weinberg said in federal court on Thursday. "There's just too many steps."
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DuckDuckGo CEO Says It Takes 'Too Many Steps' To Switch From Google More

DuckDuckGo CEO Says It Takes 'Too Many Steps' To Switch From Google

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  • It may be hard to switch if you are very new to tech, but for everyone else, it's trivial

    • Re:Huh?? (Score:4, Informative)

      by jonsmirl ( 114798 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:26PM (#63866577) Homepage

      Five clicks in Chrome

      1) Drop down the menu
      2) Click settings
      3) Click search engine
      4) Drop down the engine choice list
      5) Click on duck

      Took me about 20 seconds.

      • That is an entirely reasonable sequence for something you might do once every few years. What I don't want is a freakin' button always visible in my UI for an operation which is seldom performed. A button like that is not a UI, it's advertising.

      • Re:Huh?? (Score:4, Informative)

        by techno-vampire ( 666512 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:39PM (#63866623) Homepage
        four in Firefox:

        1) Click on the Search Bar
        2) Hit the Down Arrow to bring up the drop down list
        3) Click on Change Search Settings at the very bottom
        4) Click on Duck in the list of One-Click Search Engines.

        • Chrome could easily eliminate a click by converting the drop down list into radio buttons. But really, would that make any difference?

          Running a bunch of TV ads would be much more effective at achieving switching. Of course ads cost money. I believe I have seen a DDG TV ad exactly once in my lifetime. Why are Bing and DDG surprised no one is switching? It's not like they are running massive ad campaigns promoting it. As far as I can see they are making close to zero effort at marketing.

          • *Shrug!* I wasn't so much pointing out that Firefox can do it in one less click as I was pointing out that it's also easy there. Claiming that it takes too many clicks to change is an easily-debunked strawman.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dbialac ( 320955 )
        The steps may be simple, but even knowing to do it -- advertising -- is an issue. Advertising is on Duck Duck Go.

      • What about iOS?

        What about Android, particularly on Pixel, where there is a Google search bar that AFAIK can't change engines?

        What about the various voice search assistants?

        I don't have the answers, but it's more than just switching the browser. You need to think about the workflow of the masses.

        • One would hope that if you search for this in Bing or DDG the first result would be clear instructions on how to switch. The search result could even include a button to do the switch for you if possible. Microsoft certainly annoys me with prompts like that.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by jonadab ( 583620 )
        Yes, but then you have to learn how to get DuckDuckGo to cough up usable search results, and honestly, I couldn't be bothered. I tried maybe half a dozen searches with it, back when it was (briefly) the default in one of the browsers that I use, but ultimately I decided that it wasn't worth my time, and I switched back to Google.

        It's that darned Google's fault, for spending years conditioning everyone to expect that the first results the search engine returns should actually be what the user is looking for

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I don't know how hard it is to switch, but on iOS, it's option #3 on the setup screens. Apple asks you which browser - Google is #1 because Google paid Apple to be there, followed by Bing and I think the third option is DuckDuckGo.

      • I don't know how hard it is to switch, but on iOS, it's option #3 on the setup screens. Apple asks you which browser - Google is #1 because Google paid Apple to be there, followed by Bing and I think the third option is DuckDuckGo.

        Actually, it's number 4:

        Google
        Yahoo
        Bing
        DuckDuckGo
        Ecosia (???)

        But yes, it is trivial to switch in iOS. Under the "Safari" Section in "Settings".

    • Re:Huh?? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by SoftwareArtist ( 1472499 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @09:59PM (#63867507)

      The process I had to go through on my Android phone:

      1. Try to figure out how to get rid of the Google search widget on the home screen.
      2. Be unable to find any way.
      3. Search online for information, and learn the only way to get rid of it is to switch to a completely different launcher.
      4. Spend an hour reading reviews of alternative launchers.
      5. Install an alternative launcher.
      6. Figure out how to make it replace the built in one.
      7. Install the DuckDuckGo search widget on the home screen.

      I was highly motivated. Very few people would go through all that work just to replace the default search widget on their phone.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dryeo ( 100693 )

        Press the Google Search Widget, choose remove. Install DDG, long press icon, click the lower right icon with 3 squares and a diamond, choose one of the 3 DDG widgets and drag it to where you want it. Now DDG is the search widget.

        • There is no remove option. On my phone, it's built into the default launcher, not a separate widget. It can't be removed without switching to a different launcher.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dryeo ( 100693 )

            Hmm, I thought that I had the default launcher, but when I click send feedback from the launchers settings, it wants to send it to Motorola, no about that I see.
            Wouldn't be surprised if most phones have their own launcher. I haven't owned many and they were all Moto's where most of the eco-system is close to stock Android.
            Can you add a second search widget? Not the best solution but at least you can use DDG

      • You're not talking about a browser at this point. The widget is removable on my Samsung device - perhaps avoid the pixel if you don't want Google services? That said, how many steps is it to change the OS integrated search on other platforms?

      • I think that reflects the very poor UI that mobile devices present in terms of allowing change and customisation.

        Its probably easier to switch to a different home screen/launcher. There are quite a few good ones (e.g. KISS launcher)

  • Well, in their case ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:03PM (#63866495)

    DuckDuckGo CEO Says It Takes 'Too Many Steps' To Switch From Google

    Too many waddles. :-)

  • Hmmm (Score:4, Informative)

    by badboy_tw2002 ( 524611 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:03PM (#63866497)

    In chrome its the Menu -> Settings - >Search Engine, select Duck Duck Go from the drop down. It's not exactly hidden if you want to do it (first place I'd look), I guess figuring out you _need_ to do it is the hard part.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Making it easier would be a security issue. Every random website would be hijacking the default search. Even if the browser asked if you are sure, too many people blindly click away such requests.

      We know this because it happened all the time back in the IE6 days.

  • Maybe if they were an actual search engine instead of a Bing + adblock, I would take them seriously.

    There are two search engines, all the alternative search engines are just paying one of those two to display their results.

    • does anyone license Google's search feed? (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Pretty sure it's Google, Bing, and Bing licensees (direct or thru Yahoo!). That's aside from non-English search (e.g. Yandex in Russia, Baidu in China etc.).

      DDG's continued existence annoys me in the way that Dollar Shave Club annoyed me -- you could get the same damn razors for cheaper from Dorco but some asshole packaged up an existing second-rate product with a gimmick and made a billion dollars.

    • yandex is actually pretty good; seems to be a bit less.. well, google-like in terms of deciding what you can see and what you can't.

  • whose product uses freaking BING for it's search...

    eye
    roll
    emoji

    • Re:Coming from the CEO (Score:5, Insightful)

      by lsllll ( 830002 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:26PM (#63866575)
      I agree that DDG's search results don't always hit the nail in the head, but they do 99% of the time. And then there's Google for that other 1% of time when you're trying to find something very obscure. The fact that DDG uses BING as their database is behind the 99/1 ratio, but privacy wise Microsoft still doesn't get access to your search keywords, at least not in the way they can tie it to you. So, for privacy-minded folks, it's still a much better alternative than Google.

      • Darn I wish I had moderator points today. +1 insightful....

        And that 99%-1% ratio matches my experience. I use Google maybe one query every month.

      • And then there's Google for that other 1% of time

        There's Startpage [startpage.com] for that other 1% of the time, which uses Google search results.

  • I'm not using a thing called DukDuckGo.

    • What DO you use? "Bing"? "Google"?
      You've already changed the name anyway, to something missing a letter.

  • Wrong point of view (Score:4, Insightful)

    by samdu ( 114873 ) <samdu@NOSPAM.ronintech.com> on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:28PM (#63866591) Homepage

    Translation: "DuckDuckGo CEO Says Its competitor to Google is not compelling enough."

    If the average user found DDG more compelling, they would switch. That's DDG's fault, not Google's.

    • Quite. I suspect that the reasons that most people do not switch are:
      * Awareness that there are other search engines
      * Why should they want to switch, what is the point ?

      Actually: many are not aware of the term "search engine" or what it means. If they want to find something they just "google" -- that is the verb that means look for something on the Internet. Listen to journalists/media-types speaking you will notice that they use "google" as a verb, I have not once heard one say "search the Internet" (or

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        How many of you describe cleaning your carpets as "hoovering" even if you own a different make of vacuum cleaner ?

        Never heard that one used that way. Vacuuming, yes. But Hoovering to me means sucking up something (e.g. resources), usually in a negative sense, e.g. the Department of Defense is Hoovering up the federal budget. Might be a regional thing. :-)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by lsllll ( 830002 )

      If the average user found DDG more compelling, they would switch.

      That's because the average user either doesn't know about how much data Google collects on them, or has been told so and just doesn't care. I suspect the former has prevalence. Everyone I've talked with about Google data collection practices has switched to DDG and Brave.

      • If the average user found DDG more compelling, they would switch.

        That's because the average user either doesn't know about how much data Google collects on them, or has been told so and just doesn't care. I suspect the former has prevalence. Everyone I've talked with about Google data collection practices has switched to DDG and Brave.

        Brave? Really? Weren't they automatically adding affiliate links to their cryptocurrency URLs? Source [theverge.com]. And doesn't Brave also intentionally fail to block certain ads?

        Brave is just Chromium but with their own built-in ad marketplace.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by lsllll ( 830002 )
          I did not know that about Brave, so thank you. Hopefully they've learnt their lesson and don't pull stunts like that again or in different capacities.

          You are also correct about Brave over Chromium, which is one of the things I like, especially the debugger as a web developer. The debugger beats FF in my opinion and the browser is also faster and has a smaller footprint than FF. The good thing is that I run Pi-hole which pretty much reliably blocks ads everywhere and on everything, so I don't see any a

    • Translation: "DuckDuckGo CEO Says Its competitor to Google is not compelling enough."

      If the average user found DDG more compelling, they would switch. That's DDG's fault, not Google's.

      When companies literally spend billions fighting for the default setting on every mainstream device, it's hardly the 'fault' of those who can't afford to spend tens of billions.

      Consumers aren't ignorant of how to change settings. They're too damn lazy to do it. Plain and simple.

      When translating, account for human behavior. Those buying default settings for billions, sure do have the receipts to prove why you should.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Microsoft proves that the default setting isn't as all powerful as some people believe.

        IE6, MSN, Bing, Cortana, all the defaults on Windows at different times. All lost out to Google.

        Look at how aggressively Edge is rammed up your arse by Windows, and yet most people are able to figure out how to download and install Chrome. The old joke about Microsoft's browser being the best one to download a better browser with remains true.

        • Microsoft proves that the default setting isn't as all powerful as some people believe.

          IE6, MSN, Bing, Cortana, all the defaults on Windows at different times. All lost out to Google.

          Uhhh, you kinda overlooked that whole legal case brought by the Government where we had to force Microsoft to give up their all-powerful reign on the browser so it wasn't always easy peasy.

          And before you brag too loudly about Chrome, Google search may be next.

          Look at how aggressively Edge is rammed up your arse by Windows, and yet most people are able to figure out how to download and install Chrome. The old joke about Microsoft's browser being the best one to download a better browser with remains true.

          If defaults aren't powerful, then we wouldn't be watching mega-corps spend billions fighting for it constantly. No doubt Chrome has a questionably-legal grip on the market. That's due to speed and lack of privacy concerns. If someone were to weaponi

  • Why would people switch? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GuB-42 ( 2483988 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:49PM (#63866655)

    DuckDuckGo often gives worse results. That's why people don't switch. If people had more success getting the results they need on DuckDuckGo, they will switch. In fact many people switch from Bing to Google for that reason.

    Privacy is a rather weak argument. And by privacy I mean the narrow definition of not having a faceless company collecting data about you for ad-related reasons. Some people care, but they are a small market. Companies like DuckDuckGo, but more significantly Apple try to expand that marked, ironically using ads, but convincing people of a mostly invisible threat is difficult. And I'd say that if they manage to pass the message that privacy matters, changing the default search engine is a trivial step.

    I think that DuckDuckGo should make an effort on aspects that are not privacy. Something immediate, a killer feature, not a nebulous concept like privacy. Bangs and applets seemed like a step in the right direction, maybe they should focus on these too instead of being all about privacy. They should take a page from Tesla. Electric cars existed before Tesla, but Tesla managed to make people want one. For that, they didn't use "green" arguments, and it makes sense, EVs are green, everyone knows that, so why insist? Instead Tesla was about kickass acceleration, smart features, and fun. DuckDuckGo has privacy, which is pretty much the default state when you are not Google, ok we get it, but I think they need an equivalent feature to Tesla's acceleration, so that people go "wow, it is so great, it is not grandma's Google" when they go to the DuckDuckGo page. And then people will say "You are still using Google? Hey look at what DuckDuckGo can do", once the default setting becomes uncool, people will switch, in fact, it may act in their favor, as switching away will feel like joining a secret club, people love that.

    • DuckDuckGo often gives worse results.

      Yea, because google has a larger ad inventory, it can display better ads. Both search engines devote most of their above fold content to ads. When search results are ads, the one with better ads wins.

    • DuckDuckGo's Android web browser has a killer feature. Not only is it privacy-focused, but it can also block malicious Android apps installed on your phone from reporting to data brokers. It's one-click to burn all your tabs at once to start over.

      https://duckduckgo.com/duckduc... [duckduckgo.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If DDG was serious about privacy, they would move to a country that respects it. For a lot of Europeans, using a US company's services for privacy reasons is a joke. They are allowed to collect and sell data without even asking permission, and all you have is their word for it that they don't.

  • https://www.schneier.com/blog/... [schneier.com]

    Remember that people can be almost arbitrarily technologically incompetent.

  • I am very interested to see how far other users have to dig to see the antitrust lawsuit articles appear in google news feeds aggregate.

  • I'm calling BS. It's only four clicks in Firefox.

    Tools
    Settings
    Search
    Bing

    Done.

    • 1. Click on tools or hamburger menu.
      2. Click on settings.
      3. Click on search
      4. Click on "Default Search Engine" drop down menu.
      5. Click on search engine of your choice.

  • I am a Duckduckgo supporter, but I do not find it difficult to switch to it.
  • Will DuckDuckGo EVER offer an actually original search engine? They've been claiming for years that it's "mainly" Bing, and no one knows what other mysterious sources they use, which there's no evidence of, in the search results. The real problem is that there's no sufficient alternative to Google and Bing. "Switching to DuckDuckGo", come on...

  • We used DuckDuckGo to avoid Google's BigTech overstate censorship.

    And then ...

    Gabriel Weinberg, CEO and Founder of DuckDuckGo, made the announcement March 9 on Twitter by stating with righteous indignation that he is "sickened by Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the gigantic humanitarian crisis it continues to create."

    While employing the #StandWithUkraine virtue signal, Weinberg added his company has already been "rolling out search updates that down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation."

    At lea

  • FireFox Multi-Session Containers FTW! (Score:3)

    by echo123 ( 1266692 ) on Thursday September 21, 2023 @08:19PM (#63867311)

    FireFox Multi-Account Containers [mozilla.org] allow desktop users to easily segregate sessions across color-coded tabs.

    For example, Facebook/Meta' social properties collect data across all kinds of websites. Google does it also also. Whether or not you're are logged into Facebook or Google authorizes those companies to collect even more data about users. FireFox Muslti-session Containers specifically corral Facebook and Instagram, leaving other tabs and their sessions more secure.

    As a developer, they're also handy for testing multiple user accounts. For example, Mary/developer, Tom/support, Joe/user, Sue/admin. Having all those different user-sessions clarified by color-coded tabs is useful. And FWIW, so is gTile [gnome.org].

  • I use DDG for routine searching, but if I'm doing an important search, I'll use google. The sad fact is google is much better at finding relevant results.
  • Didn't they recently get caught out allowing Microsoft trackers?
  • DDG has a smaller market share because it sucks compared to Google. If people actually wanted to switch, they can do so easily. But, when used side by side, the vast majority prefer Google. DDG is a pale imitation.

  • I switched off the Google Monster about 3 years ago. Maybe 2 full time now. Switched to proton mail. I decided to use their paid version. Works great. The same companies drive works just fine.

    I went from an iPhone to an android oddly enough, but I have GrapheneOS on it. I love it. Took a short while to get used to it, but once you do, you'll never go back to anything else.

    I do use duckduckgo (duck.com now) as my default search engine and while I only really go to 4 or 5 websites it seems. The only t

  • DDG just does not provide the value added to make even one click worth bothering with.

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