Battery Maker SK On Declares 'Emergency' As EV Sales Disappoint (archive.md) 151
"A leading South Korean producer of electric vehicle batteries has declared itself in crisis," reports the Financial Times, "as its customers struggle with disappointing EV sales in Europe and the US."
SK On, the world's fourth-largest EV battery maker behind Chinese giants CATL and BYD and South Korean rival LG Energy Solution, has recorded losses for 10 consecutive quarters since being spun off by its parent company in 2021. Its net debt has increased more than fivefold, from Won2.9tn ($2.1bn) to Won15.6tn over the same period, as western EV sales have fallen far short of its expectations. With losses snowballing, chief executive Lee Seok-hee announced a series of cost-cutting and working practice measures last Monday, describing them as a state of "emergency management".
"We have our back against the wall," Lee wrote in a letter to employees. "We should all pull together."
[...] Tim Bush, a Seoul-based battery analyst at UBS, said the South Korean battery makers had been "badly let down" by US car manufacturers, which he said had failed to produce EVs sufficiently attractive to mass market consumers to meet their own bullish sales projections. He noted that until as recently as last year, General Motors was forecasting it would sell 1 million EVs in 2025. It sold just 21,930 in the second quarter of this year.
Bush tells the Financial Times that "the automakers didn't invest enough in producing high-quality affordable EVs." But he also tells the newspaper that a transition to EVs is still "inevitable".
"As long as the wider SK Group continues to see SK On as a trophy asset and gives it the support it needs to weather the present storm, then its long-term future is likely to be assured."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for sharing the article.
"We have our back against the wall," Lee wrote in a letter to employees. "We should all pull together."
[...] Tim Bush, a Seoul-based battery analyst at UBS, said the South Korean battery makers had been "badly let down" by US car manufacturers, which he said had failed to produce EVs sufficiently attractive to mass market consumers to meet their own bullish sales projections. He noted that until as recently as last year, General Motors was forecasting it would sell 1 million EVs in 2025. It sold just 21,930 in the second quarter of this year.
Bush tells the Financial Times that "the automakers didn't invest enough in producing high-quality affordable EVs." But he also tells the newspaper that a transition to EVs is still "inevitable".
"As long as the wider SK Group continues to see SK On as a trophy asset and gives it the support it needs to weather the present storm, then its long-term future is likely to be assured."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for sharing the article.
Woe is Australia (Score:3)
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I'm sure they had no idea some people use batteries for things other than EVs. Good tip!
It never fails to amaze me how much great "it's so easy just do X!" advice slashdot provides which is not slavishly watched by captains of industry and national leaders. We don't even charge for this great advice!
Re: Woe is Australia (Score:2)
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Re: Woe is Australia (Score:2)
That would be "harebrained". What would "hairbrained" even mean?
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Re: Woe is Australia (Score:2)
I have a 23.26 kW system. I live in a California mansion with two EVs, two central ACs, sauna, hot tub, all electric appliances. It produces about 120% of our electricity usage on an annual basis, which cuts 100% of the bill with the current tenough. That's about 30 Mwh production for 25 Mwh consumption.
Our 2 furnaces and 2 water heaters are still gas, though. As is the outdoor grill. And the 4 fireplaces. We have never used the fireplace since we bought the home 14 years ago.
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Just curious, who needs 14kW, and why?
My solar meter shows the last couple of winter days down under as 50-53kWh of total usage, and 15-20kWh of that produced via solar - the rest is from the grid. Sent to the grid was about 20kWh per day.
With battery storage we could be filling that for use overnight, and by having a battery to soak up solar we wouldn't be curtailing generation as much - we can only send a max of 5kW to the grid.
In answer to your question, anyone with a high efficiency house is a good candidate. Our house was built in 1910
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Bait (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bait (Score:5, Insightful)
If they built up their capacity to handle GM selling a million EVs next year, and they've only sold 22,000 this year, I'd say they should, perhaps, be concerned. And so should all the employees they're about to lay off.
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I don't think that any sane person at GM really thought that they were going to sell a million EVs with their present product offerings. That kind of market for $100,000 luxury SUV's like the Hummer EV and the upcoming Escalade IQ just isn't there.
GM just doesn't seem to be competing in the affordable EV space like BYD is right now. Not that you can actually get a BYD vehicle in the US, but that's another problem entirely.
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... and they've only sold 22,000 this year
They have sold almost 22,000 in the second quarter. Extrapolating to the full year means they are on course to sell close to 100.000 units.
This is still only a tenth of what the initial plan foresaw for next year, though.
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Re:Bait (Score:4, Informative)
Battery repair is an issue that needs addressing. You can repair individual cells in the battery, or rather replace them, but you need high voltage qualified technicians and getting parts can be hard.
The bigger problem though is the lack of diagnostics for batteries. If the battery gets scratched it may be perfectly fine, just a cosmetic issue, but with no way to really determine that. And even if there was, to fix it you would need someone willing to do cosmetic repairs on a high voltage lithium battery.
It's really a supply problem. Not enough qualified people to work on them, not enough availability of spare parts.
Re: Bait (Score:2)
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In most jurisdictions there are specific qualifications needed when handling high voltages. It is indeed not rocket surgery, but the employer would probably be liable if they asked staff to work on HV batteries without providing the proper training and safety equipment.
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Re: Bait (Score:3)
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I would love to know more about the failure mode of individual cells vs pack-level degradation. Tesla's route of "pink foam of death" encapsulating everything in the 4680 packs is an environmental mess if cell failures rates are anything higher than ~1:3 million in 12 years. Recycling is about as bad of a reality as post-consumer plastics.
The mechanics of replacing cells in a pack that is designed to be serviceable are fairly trivial though.
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Generally speaking EV batteries are arranged as modules, with each module containing a number of cells. Mostly it is not possible to replace individual cells, only modules. Depending on the design, the modules can be quite reasonably priced.
I'm sure you could replace cells with some hacking, but manufacturers don't support that, it's only at the module level. Then you have the rest of the battery, the case, internal electronics, thermal management system. Often the case is a large cast block.
Re: Bait (Score:2)
Re:Bait (Score:5, Informative)
It's less the EV nature and more all the electronic gizmo's makers are adding simply because they can.
Add in huge numbers of safety systems and now recertification after an accident can total the car. That's also happening to ICEs.
There was a story about the high number of EV defects and they included things like "Brake system lost contact with the radio" and "Window switches lost contact with the CAN bus system". The brake system absolutely does not need to be connected to the radio. Having the system 'talk' to the driver is cool and fun and interesting, but it's not at all required. Window switches are probably able to be controlled by the touch screen...which again isn't at all required.
Batteries being built in as structural components definitely has unresolved issues. Major accidents aren't probably the main driver of issues as they already have repair issues on any type of car.
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+1 for informative
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As far as I have seen so far.
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It's a tragedy that the US is so bad with EVs.
Also busses, trains, mass transit in general, bikes and even walking.
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Just saw a video (by Ebike school) about a week trip to China to look at electric mobility manufacturers.
China has an amazing variety of electric transport options being manufactured in high volume... scooters, bikes, trikes, motorcycles, small trucks, high speed trains, busses, etc.... not to mention that most cars and scooters in cities are EVs.
China has an unassailable lead in electric transportation. The US is toast.
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It's not so much the electric part that's the problem so much as the everything else.
Bikes are pretty easy. You can't compete with the cheapest Chinese fire hazard stuff, but then the UK has a variety of bike manufactures. The problem is that the US transport infrastructure is hostile. Not just to bikes and busses, it's hostile to cars as well.
The combination of broken zoning laws, broken road design, broken transit and broken assumptions is, well, broken. Cat dependence it turns out is also bad for cars.
Re:Bait (Score:4, Informative)
It's a tragedy that the US is so bad with EVs. You'd think the ruggedly independent would be very keen on a vehicle that they can produce fuel for at home, for free, but I guess not.
Seems like a lot of it is because EVs became a culture war.
Agreed that it's unfortunate that the US hasn't found greater EV adoption. But it's more important to understand why. It's not just a culture war, although there's plenty of that. There are some characteristics of the US that are different from the rest of the world. Gas is cheaper. Americans buy a lot of trucks and there aren't affordable EV trucks. Americans drive far greater distances than any other country due to the cheap gas, convenience of travel, spread out cities that are still drivable, and a lack of affordable trains. Due to the greater distances, building out a long-distance EV charging network is logistically more challenging. Absent a non-home charging solution for the masses, the masses would have to buy both a gas car and an EV. Every country has charging infrastructure challenges, but those challenges are greater in the US.
The 100% tariff on Chinese EVs doesn't help either.
Subsidies and tariffs go hand in hand. It's not clear which amount is higher with Chinese subsidies and non-Chinese tariffs, but my guess is that the Chinese subsidies are still higher in absolute amounts and have a far greater impact due to their much earlier application.
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the masses would have to buy both a gas car and an EV.
If you're going to go hybrid, that is the benefit of a plug-in hybrid. It handles both cases relatively well, until the battery wears out. Even after that happens, the car continues to work. BEVs require the battery pack to be replaced once it goes dead.
Re:Bait (Score:4, Informative)
Americans drive far greater distances than any other country due to the cheap gas, convenience of travel, spread out cities that are still drivable
Let me stop you there. The average American driving a greater distance doesn't preclude a distance that can easily be done by an EV. Combine that with the fact that most households have more than one car, the American driving distance even if it was a technological red line shouldn't preclude you from having around 50% EV adoption rather than the fuckall% you have now.
The gas thing is real, but the distance thing is just an excuse to buy yet another gas guzzler without feeling guilty.
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Why would you think anyone feels guilty?
Because if they didn't they wouldn't make up bullshit excuses. When you have to convince yourself that buying something is right for you based on a completely silly underlying assumption then there's only two logical conclusions: guilt or stupidity. And half of all people are above average intelligence so the low EV adoption rate can't be accounted for by stupidity.
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I feel no guilt for anything I do in life.
I drive the cars I want to drive....you get an EV out that is a 2-seater sports car type...in the ba
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The average American driving a greater distance doesn't preclude a distance that can easily be done by an EV.
I would love to see an EV do a Colorado Springs, Colorado to Gaithersburg, Maryland trip in under 20 hours. Or Colorado Springs, Colorado to Millington, Tennessee in under 17 hours. Both trips I have made repeatedly in my past. Total hours are from rough memory, but they are very close. Life is not as easy as some people think. These kinds of demands are not exactly rare even if they are not common.
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It's a tragedy that the US is so bad with EVs. You'd think the ruggedly independent would be very keen on a vehicle that they can produce fuel for at home, for free, but I guess not.
Seems like a lot of it is because EVs became a culture war.
Agreed that it's unfortunate that the US hasn't found greater EV adoption. But it's more important to understand why. It's not just a culture war, although there's plenty of that. There are some characteristics of the US that are different from the rest of the world. Gas is cheaper. Americans buy a lot of trucks and there aren't affordable EV trucks. Americans drive far greater distances than any other country due to the cheap gas, convenience of travel, spread out cities that are still drivable, and a lack of affordable trains. Due to the greater distances, building out a long-distance EV charging network is logistically more challenging. Absent a non-home charging solution for the masses, the masses would have to buy both a gas car and an EV. Every country has charging infrastructure challenges, but those challenges are greater in the US.
I'm not sure any of that really matters. I live in Alberta and would love an EV (even with the talk about winter range reductions), but a plug-in hybrid costs less and has most the advantages with few of the disadvantages.
Right now, most EV purchases are "luxury" in the sense that people are spending more money than they need to in order to own an EV. That fact won't hold long term, but it's the case for now.
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Most of that stuff is cultural though, that's what I'm getting at. Trains are bad and expensive because there has been a deliberate effort to make them that way. Preferring trucks is cultural. Even cheap petroleum is a choice to externalize the cost, one which Europe has not followed (at least not to the same degree).
Even the long distances are a cultural issue really. It's not that EVs can't go far, affordable ones will do a solid 250 miles. It's that many Americans seem reluctant to stop for a short break
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Even the long distances are a cultural issue really. It's not that EVs can't go far, affordable ones will do a solid 250 miles. It's that many Americans seem reluctant to stop for a short break after 5 hours of driving.
It's not really a break every 5 hours of driving - if you follow the 80/20 rule for charging your battery, it's more like 2-2.5 hours between charges given the relative paucity of fast chargers, especially if you are driving in non-ideal conditions. That means you are spending at least 10% of your time charging, and that's assuming there is no line to charge and the chargers are actually able to deliver the 250kW they advertise. You might also have to stop more frequently if you are at say 40% currently,
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You don't need to follow the 80/20 rule most of the time. All EV manufacturers build in a big "buffer", extra battery capacity that you can't use because the car won't let you charge to the real 100%, or down to the real 0%. Depending on the car is can be anywhere from 5% to 25% of the raw battery capacity.
There is some benefit to not leaving the car sat below 20% or above 80% for long periods of time, or repeatedly, so when at home you might want to limit charging to 80% and plug in above 20%. When doing l
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Yeah, I have a car with ~320 mi range when at 100%. What I do is start a long trip at 100%. If I'm driving in the winter though, it knocks about 20-25% off that range. When I'm driving to through a rural area I don't let it drop below 20%, because I can't expect the chargers to be well maintained, and there might be 50+ miles between fast chargers, so I don't want to be out of luck if the charger I've picked is out of service on only providing 20kW or something equally dismal.
And yeah, I typically only c
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Do people seriously not think that EVs are the future, and are waiting to see what happens?
A future that can only happen through coercion is certainly subject to change.
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Another way of looking at it is the days of you getting to dump pollution into other people's lungs for free are coming to an end. You can no longer coerce them into not charging you for it.
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You seem to be forgetting the very large number of people that do not have the option of charging at home...large unit apartment dwellers with vast parking lots, no chargers (not assigned spaces either)....people with homes in areas with no off street parking....and people renting houses, where they do not have permission or ab
nothing to do with recall of stolen technology ... (Score:5, Informative)
Im sure it has nothing to do with recall of stolen defective technology.
SK stole EV battery technology from LG https://www.reuters.com/techno... [reuters.com]
unfortunately for SK it was defective by design and cost LG f-ton of money to recall https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
and now SK is on the hook https://www.just-auto.com/news... [just-auto.com]
Re:nothing to do with recall of stolen technology (Score:4, Interesting)
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CATL and BYD are currently making second generation LMFP batteries
Are they? So far I've only heard plans to sell them maybe starting this year, but haven't heard of anything using them alredy. Also, are claims of safety and energy density verified independently?
I know someone who bought a Chinese electric cart from BYD (Tank or somesuch, late in 2022). The sales pitch was about a huge range on top of other niceties. In practice, the car delivered nothing close to the advertised range, has already rusted and undergone several long service spells. For a new car that's quit
Blind leading the blind (Score:4, Insightful)
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that no one is going to buy the luxury $80,000 EVs in the middle of a financial crisis
People buying $80k EVs aren't having a financial crisis. They probably don't even realise it's happening. The financial crisis is something that affects poor people.
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One macro eco trend people aren't yet realizing is this:
As a market grows, segments of it also grow. When the 'upper end' segment gets big enough that manufacturers can make good money selling *only* upper end vehicles....they aren't going to spend money on building cheap econo boxes for the masses.
In some ways it's the 1970s all over again. But now, given the high barriers to entry in the auto market...China is probably the only entity capable of doing it. And we're tariffing them into non-existence in
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It should have been obvious since day 1, that no one is going to buy the luxury $80,000 EVs in the middle of a financial crisis
No. It should have been painfully obvious that only 1% of your customers can afford a fucking $80,000 car, no matter what’s powering it, regardless of a financial crisis.
It SHOULD"VE BEEN OBVIOUS (Score:2)
People can't afford EV's that cost Double what overpriced Gasoline fueled cars cost. Cars are becoming unaffordable PERIOD. EV or Gas. Since EV's are more expensive AND there are the charging issues, that segment is suffering the most. Everyone with half a brain predicated this was coming.
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Whatever about all that.
I only need to know Trump left office with inflation at 9%.
According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics the inflation rate for January 2021, when Biden took office, was 1.4%. But it was 2.5% Jan 2020 when covid hit so that was kind of a fluke.
Transition to all-renewable isn't seamless. (Score:4, Insightful)
We're seeing transition to renewable energy going way faster than anyone expected. However, it's not seamlesss nor should it be expected to be. We have 100+ years of Oil and fossil fuels in general that ran our life. You don't just swap that out in one go without hitting bumps or snags.
It is very likely that 2 years from now they will have problems keeping up with demand. Perhaps even earlier. This is the exact situation where government subsidies actually could make sense, if only to buffer the time until demand for batteries kicks in.
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exactly. https://www.vox.com/2015/10/12... [vox.com] has a graph of just how crazy low 10 yr projections were compared to what we achieved when that 10 yrs happened.
In 2010 it was projected to have 180 GW of installed solar PV capacity by 2024; that target was met in January 2015.
In 2015, installed PV capacity exceeded 2010 projections for 2015 by threefold.
I'm retired and never plan on buying an EV.... (Score:2, Offtopic)
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FWIW, I got a pretty nice Toyota plugin hybrid recently for the cost of a comparable "EV". It covers more than 80% of my driving needs on battery, and I have a real car for the rare occasion when I need one.
Not sure if EVs will ever get where the hybrids already are.
Re: I'm retired and never plan on buying an EV.... (Score:2)
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Well, I'm not in the business of helping the battery factories. On the other hand, if the price is right someday I may buy a battery to store that extra solar power which the utility doesn't need.
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In TX there's a company that will install a home battery for your for basically free. You then buy power from them and they use the batteries to make money selling to the grid as needed as well. You get 100% up time thanks to the battery for all but the worst grid fall overs. https://electrek.co/2024/05/09... [electrek.co]
For just $2000 upfront. For a 20 kwh battery!
Given the instability of the Tx grid, they basically print money, and you get cheap cheap and STABLE power.
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Thanks, this is interesting indeed, although it appears that it isn't what I imagine I'm looking for:
A Base Power spokesperson told Electrek that it purchases 20 kWh white-label batteries that it owns, operates, and maintains for its customers [...] and solar isn’t required.
My imagination is, of course, limited by past experience of companies that rent equipment as a part of a broader service contract. They often put limits on how their stuff integrates with what people already have, and moreover, they tend to disintegrate and disappear, leaving their gear inoperable and worthless.
But it is an interesting example nevertheless and it is not set in stone that all service vendors
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PHEVs use "moderate" battery sizes. If we went 100% PHEV, the battery factories would be fine, it's be comparable to like 10-20% of vehicles sold being EV.
I would be behind a system where we transitioned like 90% of people to PHEV before going to full EV.
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Yep. Only better thing would have been doing it 20 years ago.
But no time like the present to start the journey. We have 2 14 yr old cars and the next will probably be a used EV and a PHEV for trips.
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Actually they do. Battery manufacturers make cells. Cells are then combined into whatever size battery is being ordered.
Lots of small things mean a larger potential pool of buyers, vs a small pool of people able to buy a few very expensive things.
The problem isn't the battery size, it's the lack of gov't push towards PHEVs 20 years ago. Then we'd have given people experience with the use of EVs without range anxiety. And of course, economies of scale coming down so things would be cheaper now.
But no ti
Work from Home (Score:2)
Just speaking for myself, since I moved out of the city (Culver City, CA) and started working from home, my 'need' for a daily driver car has gone to zero. That's what I see a typical electric car as being the best for; a predictable and regular commute to the workplace. I have no proof, but I bet I'm not alone. My sister and sister-in-law now (since the plague panic of 2020) have most groceries and other things delivered. Don't need to now but once the convenience was experienced it's hard to stop. They ho
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I concur. WFH lifestyle changes have led us to getting rid of a car. During COVID I only drove it 3 times and all three times it had a flat battery from lack of use.
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I generally agree, but really an EV is not unreasonable as an Nth car a lot of times. For instance my best friend has a 'vette, a Diesel MB SUV and a Prius for daily driving. I tend to think that an EV like maybe a Model 3 o a Y would work just as well for that. It's home every night after a very predictable day.
For me, my PHEV was great though. It filled up as fast as any other ICE vehicle, and I only had to fill it 2-3 times a year because most of my driving was within the range of the battery. For the ve
Well, if some of those car jackasses... (Score:2, Troll)
...finally built a good EV...
Al we have now is crap. Absolute garbage. It's all techno-gimmicked to the teeth but usability is down the drain. All the creature comforts you never use but they drive like crap. They don't drive like crap but you can't listen to music properly and forget about setting turn signals. They have propper buttins but the seats are uncomfortable and unsupporting and the ride quality sucks.
Just about all of them have range out the wazoo because "muh range anxiety" but in few of them y
Re: Well, if some of those car jackasses... (Score:4, Interesting)
They're classically right anyway (Score:2)
Americans don't want cup-holders or fuel economy or handling! They want a Shamu with fake velvet quilted bench seats.
In my whole existence, never, never has the American car companies been first or even any where near best in appealing to the to current tastes of consumers. I'd buy an EV, but again my selection is limited in the USA for reasons in the same vein and spirit as to why I also cannot buy a small car-like pick-up.
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I do...it's a pain in the ass to try to hold your beer between your legs and trying to shift at the same time.....
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What's your objection to the vehicles I listed?
Personally the one I want is the first gen Ridgeline. It's just a Pilot with a bed, but that's a pretty good vehicle. But the second gen model has some substantial improvements, and it looks more normal. I like the funky look of the original, but I know it's not for everyone.
Plus, you know, it's a Honda. Fuck American vehicles. America hasn't even tried to make a decent vehicle in ages except for maybe the Camaro.
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I like the Corvette.
attractive (Score:2)
>"which he said had failed to produce EVs sufficiently attractive to mass market consumers to meet their own bullish sales projections"
Bingo.
I would buy an EV right now. But I want a similar car/sedan to replace my Japanese luxury sport sedan. Not a truck, not an SUV. One that is "normal" looking with "normal" controls/dash and "normal" size with a "normal" price. Still waiting....
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I have the IONIQ 6 and it's a pretty nice sedan. I guess its Korean though. I don't know if I would call it luxury, but it's the nicest car I've ever owned.
EV batteries (Score:2, Interesting)
In my opinion EVs need battery packs that can be swapped instead of recharged in place. You pull into a station and get a complete battery swap. Battery packs that have been removed can then be inspected, diagnosed, and recharged for next use when everything checks out. Those packs that need maintenance can then be serviced easily while outside of a vehicle. This would require automakers to come up with universal standards however, which probably couldn't happen without governments intervening unfortunately
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Nio cars do that. Looks like a good idea but adds complexity and the need for a " retail presence" so they are not targeting the low end of the market unlike BYD and a few others. BYD is winning.
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So you say but EV adoption is fine most places without that.
Most prime charge overnight and very rarely visit the equivalent of a gas station.
Swapping our great for a cannonball run, but not many people do that. Fast charging takes as long as the break you ought to be taking anyway.
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Looking at the big picture it allows the EV manufacturers to get out of the battery business. Current gas stations can over time be converted to battery swap stations, taking just a few minutes to swap while you grab a coffee or visit the bathroom just like you would at a gas station today. The station infrastructure is already in place, all that is needed is a battery industry to utilize them like oil companies do today. Battery repair, recycling, maintenance, and recharging all handled at the local statio
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Looking at the big picture it allows the EV manufacturers to get out of the battery business.
They're only half in. They assemble cells into batteries and may opt to buy or license third party control and charging hardware.
Most of what you're saying isn't wrong per-se, but I don't think it matter as as much. Degredation has been oversold somewhat. In practice it isn't as bad as people assumed and the newer generations are better than the older ones.
In terms of nipping into a gas station: that's just a chore
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No thanks. The best thing about an EV is not having to go to a "station". Ever. Okay I've been to one once in the past year, but only because we were driving internationally, and the car still filled up faster than I could drink my coffee (I'm not one of those pigs who eats / drinks in their car).
But with the standard thing you've hit a bit of a technological road block. Having a standard for this would actively hamper very real development in what is still very much a rapidly changing technology. Pull into
price (Score:2)
EV sales are expensive and their most expensive part is the battery, do we wonder why their sales are struggling?
Charging is a huge issue (Score:2)
An electric car makes total sense for me. I take maybe one trip per year where I'd need to charge on the road and everything else is just short jaunts for errands. However, how to charge? I live in Seattle and have a garage. That garage doesn't have a 220 outlet anywhere. My service panel, 200 amps, is 100% full. So, to get 220 in the garage I'm going to need to update my service and get 220 out to the garage through a finished basement. I figure 15-20k for that. Do I need TWO 220v outlets out there? Would
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Will the electrical code allow you to piggy-back on an existing 220V circuit for your clothes dryer or air conditioning?
I'm just thinking you are unlikely to be drying a load of laundry or running the A/C after midnight.
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Will the electrical code allow you to piggy-back on an existing 220V circuit for your clothes dryer or air conditioning?
I'm just thinking you are unlikely to be drying a load of laundry or running the A/C after midnight.
A panel can be "full" as in all its breaker slots are occupied without exceeding the max load factor for your service. You'd have to do a load calculation to see if you can add a device that pulls 40/60/80A continuous to your household. If you can, then you can add a sub-panel.
Per section 230.67 of the 2020 NEC you can use a load shedding device to split a circuit between multiple high draw devices. For example you can hang an electric dryer and an EV charger off a single 50A circuit as long as there was
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I would probably just run an 80A sub-panel out to the garage and then do the EV run(s) from there.
You can install many L2 chargers outside, so I don't know why these people in you neighborhood are running cables all over the place. You just do a permanent install rather than a a 14-50 outlet. This is what I've done. I just have it mounted to my house next to my driveway. This is safer as well as if you don't install a really high quality outlet that can handle pulling max current for long periods, it ca
It's because Tesla's sales are creatoring (Score:2)
What's more we have market research showing that a good chunk of that drop in sales is because of their CEOs behavior on x.com. The sort of person who has the kind of money needed to blow on a Tesla and isn't swayed by a fossil fuel industry's mouthpieces apparently doesn't like it went over
Re: It's because Tesla's sales are creatoring (Score:2)
While I agree with you about the CEO's behavior, Tesla does have several models, the 3 and Y, that are close or below the cost of the average new car sales price in the US. It no longer takes a wealthy buyer who can afford a model S . Which means they do have a large supply of middle class right wing bigots as potential buyers.
Re: (Score:2)
How?
Tesla were never a customer of SK
They use Panasonic cells, as well as LG and Chinese manufacturers
https://www.investopedia.com/a... [investopedia.com]
Sorry to introduce facts to your ranting.
No so good batteries? (Score:2)
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More importantly, his cars are expensive, ugly and of low quality.
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Teslas are expensive, but BYDs are not. But they are effectively banned in America.
The article is about SK On, not BYD.
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Yep, administrations have to deal with multiple priorities. If you calculated the cost of allowing state subsidized goods to be dumped in the US, the US might as well subsidize its own industry.
In any case BYDs brought up to western safety standards are affordable, but nowhere the price BYD sells EVs for in China. In Australia costs $45k AUD, or roughly $30k US. That's more than the Chevy Bolt was selling for when it was cancelled last year.
Re: blame musk (Score:2)
"Probably"...speculation,usually biased drivel.
Next.
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CATL and Panasonic make Tesla batteries. This story is about SK.
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some of us that live in COLD winter climates
You'll be fine, as long as you don't store your car anywhere it goes below -20C, lest the battery be permanently damaged.
Enjoy no regen braking or ability to charge the vehicle until the battery temperature gets above 0C
some cars have battery heaters to allow charging in cold climates.
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I live in "flyover country" (Ohio) and you will pry my beloved EV out of my cold, dead fingers.
I charge at home for 99% of my driving and for the occasional longer trip, there are public chargers on most major interstates that get me where I need to go.
Only thing I don't recommend them for is cross-country driving. It's possible, no doubt, but it requires more up front planning to make sure you know where chargers are and when to stop. A hybrid works better for that. (This will also change over the next