Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Transportation Power

Ford Cancels Electric SUV, Delays EV Pickup (cnbc.com) 277

Posted by EditorDavid from the charging-ahead dept.
Volkswagen said this week it would wait to see where EV demand goes before building out the last three of its six planned battery factories. And now Ford has also cancelled its planned electric SUV and delayed production of an all-new electric pickup, according to CNBC, moves Ford now believes could cost up to $1.9 billion.

But Ford isn't giving up. Ford's COO told CNBC Thursday that "We're quite convinced that the highest adoption rates for electric vehicles will be in the affordable segment on the lower size-end of the range." Instead of the three-row SUV or large pickup, the company's first new EV is expected to be a commercial van in 2026, followed the next year by a midsized pickup and then the T3 full-size pickup... And the midsize pickup is scheduled to be the first vehicle from a specialized "skunkworks" team in California. The company had tasked the team two years ago with developing a new small EV platform... "In ICE, a business we've been in for 120 years, the bigger the vehicle, the higher the margin. But it's exactly the opposite for EVs...."

Ford's current EVs — the Mustang Mach-E crossover, F-150 Lightning and a commercial van in the U.S. — are not profitable overall. The Model e operations have lost nearly $2.5 billion during the first half of this year and lost $4.7 billion in 2023. The losses, as well as changing market conditions and business plans, caused Ford earlier this year to withdraw an ambitious 8% profit margin for its EV unit by 2026.

Investors and Wall Street analysts have largely supported the EV changes, most recently sending the company's shares up about 2.3% since the announcement earlier this week, despite the expected costs. "Overall, these changes will position Ford to benefit from growing demand for EVs, while also focusing on areas in which it has a Core competitive advantage," BofA's John Murphy wrote Wednesday in an investor note... The updates are the latest for Ford's electrification plans, which now include a heavy focus on hybrid and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, or PHEVs, to assist in meeting tightening fuel economy regulations in addition to all-electric vehicles. Ford CFO John Lawler said Wednesday that the company's future capital expenditure plans will shift from spending about 40% on all-electric vehicles to spending 30%... "What we saw in '21 and '22 was a temporary market spike where the demand for EVs really took off," Gjaja told CNBC during an interview earlier this year. "It's still growing but not nearly at the rate we thought it might have in '21, '22."
The article also points out that while Ford is discontinuing its giant electric SUV, Ford's rival GM is doing exactly the opposite: America's largest automaker has pulled back spending and delayed many of its EVs, but it has several large all-electric vehicles on sale coming soon... As recently as last month, GM reconfirmed expectations for its EVs to be profitable on a production, or contribution-margin basis, once it reaches output of 200,000 units by the fourth quarter. A GM spokesman Thursday said the automaker continues "to work to reach variable profit positive during the fourth quarter."
The article also notes "an industrywide fear that Chinese automakers could be able to flood markets with cheaper, more profitable EVs," with Chinese automakers like BYD "quickly growing exports of vehicles to Europe and other countries..."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Ford Cancels Electric SUV, Delays EV Pickup More

Ford Cancels Electric SUV, Delays EV Pickup

Comments Filter:

  • Simple Math (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @11:43AM (#64733706)

    High cost + cell phone on wheels + zero resale value = doomed vehicle.

    • Complex mathematics. (Score:5, Funny)

      by mmell ( 832646 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @11:59AM (#64733740)
      Ford (as a corporate entity) obviously feels differently about it. I've discovered a truly marvellous proof of this which this website is unfortunately too small to contain.

    • >> zero resale value

      Hilarious! And you can definitely get a very nice new EV well under the average selling price of a new car in the USA these days.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dbialac ( 320955 )
        Given the law of supply and demand, you just re-enforced his point.

        • >> you just re-enforced his point

          Given that the resale value is about the same as similar ICE vehicles, you are full of it.

    • High cost + cell phone on wheels + zero resale value = doomed vehicle.

      Most cars on the market today tick two of those three boxes. It is clear consumers don't give a flying fuck about their cars being cellphones on wheels.

      • Until everything requires a subscription to be able to use. The "golden screwdriver" is already a thing. They would make steering and brakes a subscription too if the government would allow it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by batkiwi ( 137781 )

      I know teslas are stupid with the whole "needs a subscription" thing, are the Ford EVs the same? We don't get them here so I haven't seen.

      I know BYD and Volvo don't.

    • Re:Simple Math (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday August 26, 2024 @04:53AM (#64735306) Homepage Journal

      All are symptoms of the dysfunction in the US market. In Europe used EVs do decently well on the used market, the market for new ones is doing at least as well as the market for fossil cars, and they have proven to be reliable and relatively easy to fix (again compared to fossils).

      As for cost, some models have reached price parity with the ICE versions now. The Chinese are undercutting even those.

      The US seems to be stuck in the past. For some reason the rush to install charging infrastructure and stake a claim in the prime locations that happened in Europe hasn't happened there. Most of it seems to be FUD, which to be fair we had a lot of in Europe too in the early days. Still do, in fact. It doesn't help when companies like Ford buy into it, but they are also way behind on the EV transition and their offerings are mediocre at best.

  • Murcians (the poorer 90%) hate EVs (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sinkskinkshrieks ( 6952954 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @11:43AM (#64733708)
    A leading EV maker went the Apple gotcha capitalism, unrepairable route that has a limited lifespan rather than deliver a vehicle a person can own. Also, their initial acquisition price points are too high and so average Americans, continuing to silently lose income through inflation without wage increases, cannot afford them even if their TCOs happen to be lower than ICE vehicles. Americans are simply too poor to afford the better, (total lifecycle) cleaner, and (arguably) cheaper technology of EVs and so their attitudes tend to rationalize ICEs as "better" and EVs as "worse". Instead, they've become divisive status symbols rather than a pathway to reduction of GHGs.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by registrations_suck ( 1075251 )

      While all of that may be true, it isn't just "poor" people who don't want them. My household has a top 10% incone. I wouldn't buy an EV costing more than $10K, and it would have to have 20 minute 0 to full charging and a 500 mile range.

      EVs just seem like "disposable tech" to me. I'm not inclined to spend much money on it. In the meantime, I'll keep driving my soon to be 18 year old vehicle that is cheap to insure, cheap to repair and was paid off a long time ago.

      • Re: Murcians (the poorer 90%) hate EVs (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Midnight_Falcon ( 2432802 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @01:07PM (#64733858)
        You're quite an exception then, most households claiming top 10 percent income don't drive 18 year old cars. While cheap to repair, the amount of repairs typically necessary compounded with lost time getting those repairs and not having a car or needing a rental etc (for top earners, that time is money!) make it unworth it to most upper middle class people. These people tend to have newer cars that are more reliable and need only routine service. For upper middle class commuters, EVs can be charged at home (saving time at gas stations) and require less maintenance (no oil changes) causing them to spend less of their valuable time at service centers or dealerships. So, your method is cheap for a reason: you get what you pay for in time spent on repairs and frustration when the car doesn't start or has to be towed.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by registrations_suck ( 1075251 )

          You're quite an exception then, most households claiming top 10 percent income don't drive 18 year old cars. While cheap to repair, the amount of repairs typically necessary compounded with lost time getting those repairs and not having a car or needing a rental etc (for top earners, that time is money!) make it unworth it to most upper middle class people.

          My wife also has a car and I have a motorcycle. If my Jeep breaks down, I have. I need to rent a car. When the engine blew four years ago, it sat for a year before I dealt with it. I just let my wife drive me around most of the time, or I drove her car or the motorcycle.

          So, your method is cheap for a reason: you get what you pay for in time spent on repairs and frustration when the car doesn't start or has to be towed.

          I can make tons of repairs for what people make in car payments. I have not had to make a repair on my Jeep in a few years. That was the ECU, for about $700. Way, way, way cheaper than the average car payment, let alone paying interest and

        • You're quite an exception then, most households claiming top 10 percent income don't drive 18 year old cars. While cheap to repair, the amount of repairs typically necessary compounded with lost time getting those repairs and not having a car or needing a rental etc (for top earners, that time is money!) make it unworth it to most upper middle class people. These people tend to have newer cars that are more reliable and need only routine service. For upper middle class commuters, EVs can be charged at home (saving time at gas stations) and require less maintenance (no oil changes) causing them to spend less of their valuable time at service centers or dealerships. So, your method is cheap for a reason: you get what you pay for in time spent on repairs and frustration when the car doesn't start or has to be towed.

          I think your assumption here is wrong. I don't think I am in the top 10% but I am solidly upper middle class. I got here because I save and I invest, vehicles are a terrible investment and should be replaced only when necessary and I believe most folks in this income bracket would agree. As far as I can see EVs will always be the worst of a bad investment, this may change long after I'm dead but for now, no one will force me to purchases one. It's the young and poor'ish who always want thew newest whizz

          • Yup, I am prolly in the top 3% - because I try not waste money on cars and invest with reasonable success. My EV is an ebike. That is an expensive enough experiment in new unreliable tech!

          • I got here because I save and I invest

            People clawing their way into upper middle class through careful money management are in an absolute minority. The bulk of the upper-middle class are born into it, or joined that group professionally.

            Yeah cars are a terrible investment, and yet just shy of 20million new cars are sold in the USA every year. Multiply that by a 10 year life expectancy and you end up with the majority of the population making that terrible investment at some point, and that investment is skewed to people who can afford to make

        • Fuck the whole 'exception' bit. People keep telling me that too. I'm sure if you went around and asked people, most would be an 'exception' for some reason.

      • Top 10% household here too, but came to a different conclusion. Decided to get rid of my 20 year old car for an EV. I pay 1/4 to 1/6 the price of fuel of an ICE car to go a given distance. I don't care about charge time because each morning I wake up with a "full tank" giving me 230 miles of range which is enough except for maybe 10 days a year. Maintenance is near zero as there are no oil changes, no spark plugs, no engine coolant, and brake pads last forever.

        Look again at your costs. I noticed my ins

    • Re:Murcians (the poorer 90%) hate EVs (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Zarhan ( 415465 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @01:05PM (#64733856)

      Problem is that there is no low-cost EV - not anymore, at least. I bought a Seat Mii Electric, a variant of VW E-up [wikipedia.org] for 18600 EUR brand new, with 5 year warranty, in 2021. I still have it. For 95% of the family's journeys, it works just fine, charging at home. For rest, it's a bit of a hassle to recharge on public chargers - because the range is around 200 km, that needs to be done relatively often, and recharging is a hassle due to every public charger requiring their own app.
          The good things are that it's based on 10 years older ICE car. Meaning: Physical buttons. No touchscreens *anywhere*. You need to put the key in ignition and turn it to start.

        For the one time a year when we need to haul more stuff, we can just rent a van.

        Anyway, point is this: I was able to purchase the darn thing for under 20kEUR, brand new. However, as of right now, there *is* no similar option. VAG group cancelled the whole product line, apparently because it was too successful (loss leader I guess). Similar cars (MG4 EV, Mini Cooper) etc all cost around 25k. Dacia Spring might come close, but still.

      I'm waiting VW ID.2 and it's variants (Skoda Epiq). Hoping for the best, fearing the worst. I hope that they have gotten rid of the worst excesses of the "bridge of Enterprise-D" look. If they can give that 400+ km range for around 25kEUR, as advertised, I'm sold. However, strong resemblance for vaporware here...

      • and recharging is a hassle due to every public charger requiring their own app.

        This is so weird. I recently watched a youtube video of people doing a road trip through the USA. You need an app to charge your car? WTF! Why is this a thing?

        What I do is I swipe my charge card. On the off chance that that doesn't work I swipe my debit card or credit card. How did the USA allow public charging infrastructure to get gated like this?

        Meaning: Physical buttons. No touchscreens *anywhere*.

        That shouldn't be the criteria. The criteria should be having physical buttons for functions needed while the vehicle is in motion. The idea of a touchscreen isn

        • This is so weird. I recently watched a youtube video of people doing a road trip through the USA. You need an app to charge your car? WTF! Why is this a thing?

          What's really weird is your assumption that the person who quoted a price in EUR for a car that was sold in the EU but never in the USA would be from the USA.

          Maybe dial back the USA bashing and re-read that post and take in the obvious fact that the app thing happens in the EU too.

        • "You need an app to charge your car? WTF! Why is this a thing?" Lousy corporate thinking. "tHeRe iS aN aPp fOr tHaT!". A charger would work the same even if there was an old fashioned coin slot and bill reader on the station. I'd rather my charging stations came from a company with sane thinking grounded in the real world and how average people would use a payment kiosk rather than caving in to what some wet behind the ears brogrammer group thinks is "cool".

    • >> initial acquisition price points are too high

      The average new car selling price in the USA is about $48k. The base Mach-E sells for ~$40k. I am seeing some nice used ones on Carvana. A 2022 with 35k miles for $28k for example.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dbialac ( 320955 )
        People are not finding an EV convenient, at least right now, hence the low resale value.

      • The average new car selling price in the USA is about $48k. The base Mach-E sells for ~$40k. I am seeing some nice used ones on Carvana. A 2022 with 35k miles for $28k for example.

        Comparing the average apple to the cheapest orange is like comparing, uh, someone help me out here?

      • One of my coworkers bought a Mach-E and wound up having to sell it because of range issues. I live in Humboldt, our weather is best described as "mild coastal, with more rain than average" yet the vehicle suffered severe range shortfalls here. There are some Tesla chargers at the mall, but few other chargers around, and nothing close to our place of employment - The mall is halfway across town from here. He wound up having to use the chargers there anyway on several occasions, and it's common to have to wai

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cyberax ( 705495 )

      Also, their initial acquisition price points are too high and so average Americans, continuing to silently lose income through inflation without wage increases

      Wage increases have been outpacing the inflation by quite a healthy margin, especially for lower-paid jobs.

    • ever wondered why Elon is playing Trump (interview on X) and why Trump gets Cybertruck?
    • BMW already has plastic engines https://www.bimmerfest.com/thr... [bimmerfest.com] and the golden screwdriver https://www.theverge.com/2021/... [theverge.com] so it's a Sell-fone on wheels. And built to go physically obsolete like your typical Sell-phone these days.

  • Whatever Ford and GM do will be wrong (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @11:44AM (#64733710)

    They always ultimately choose to chase easy near-term profit and instead of investing in keeping up with change (or trying to lead a market), they lobby politicians to artificially stagnate the existing market conditions.

    And neither bothers catering to young new drivers, which is where the next generation of brand-loyal luxury car purchasers will come from.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jonwil ( 467024 )

      If I was buying a new car right now, I would rather drive something like a BYD Atto 3 EV SUV than anything Ford or GM is putting out.

      • My new car days ended over two decades ago. My job doesn't require me to impress anyone, and every dollar spent on my car beyond what is needed for safe transport is one I consider wasted.

        EVs are finally getting to the point that my next purchase may be a used one. That'll be nice.

  • Van (Score:3)

    by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @11:44AM (#64733712)

    EV commercial vans are probably a good market, both for delivery and tradesmen

    • Re:Van (Score:4)

      by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @01:03PM (#64733850)

      EV commercial vans are probably a good market, both for delivery and tradesmen

      Exactly. This is where EVs should really shine. Short trips with lots of stopping and starting. Plug them in at the end of the day and start fresh in the morning. With fewer moving parts their downtime and maintenance is severely reduced so their reliability should be better than ICE vehicles.

      Downsides would be the weight of the batteris and them taking up space for cargo, as well as when they go down they go down hard. If a board dies, how long will it take to get it replaced? How easy is it to get replaced? Tires wear out more quickly on EVs than ICE vehicles.

    • Ford has the eTransit, GM has the BrightDrop Zevo, Mercedes sells the eSprinter, Peugeot the e-Expert, RAM will start selling the Promaster EV soon, and of course Rivian's EDV has been on the road for a couple years now as part of Amazon's fleet.

      The eTransit in particular seems to get good reviews from tradesmen.
      =Smidge=

  • Charging Stations (Score:4, Interesting)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Sunday August 25, 2024 @11:51AM (#64733724) Homepage Journal

    The thing Tesla got most right was building out a charging network to make their vehicles viable. Ford could be selling their electric pickups just fine if they would just do the work of figuring out where to put some charging stations to alleviate potential customers' range anxiety, and then put some there. They especially need to accommodate drivers towing trailers, which does raise the amount of real estate involved — but that's who's most concerned about range.

    It's also really kind of inconceivable that these automakers didn't buy their own battery manufacturers and build their own production. That's the only reliable way to ensure supply at a steady cost.

    • Odd about the charging situation tho. Government mandates (especially in CA) were/are behind giant EV push. But Government never told manufacturers "if you want to get on the rebate train, you must all standardize charging."
    • Well, the majority. Right now, even factoring in worldwide production, production of lithium is less than demand for lithium. The US Government is actively trying to encourage lithium mining here in the US; the problem is that it is a polluting activity (mining lithium isn't quite easy) and we've gotten smarter than to destroy our country just to outproduce another - or, at least, we're getting there. I suppose we could deregulate the mining industry? That might help, but otherwise we have to turn to ov
    • What I don't understand is the failure of the U.S. companies to come out with electric-drive hybrids. A Honda 196cc gasoline engine generator puts out 3kW -- more than double what a Tesla Model Y consumes to maintain a freeway speed. A Ford Explorer has a 3000cc engine -- 15X larger than what is needed when a generator is combined with a battery for providing reserve energy for acceleration. This is a much easier engineering design than a mechanically coupled hybrid, so why the failure to pursue the elec

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        >A Honda 196cc gasoline engine generator puts out 3kW -- more than double what a Tesla Model Y consumes to maintain a freeway speed.

        Slavs are way ahead of americans as usual:

        https://cdn.benchmark.pl/uploa... [benchmark.pl]

        • Dodge (whose trucks currently identify as "Ram") has one coming out for the 2025 model year, the RamCharger.

          Pure electric drive ("series hybrid"), and supposedly 140-150 mile plugin range. It uses their Hurricane I6 solely as a generator. 690 mile alleged range.

          I've paid the $100 to get in the order queue, which is refundable until they notify you that it's your turn.

          But I'll most likely just order an F150 Powerboost hybrid.

          The plugin jeep hybrid from Dodge's corporate overlords hasn't done so well on rel

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

            So super expensive and low quality American copy of BYD hybrids that did this sort of thing for a while?

            • The reality is that Americans would all buy BYD electric vehicles if we could. Except for those of us that would buy a Toyota Hilux. The real problem with the car market in the United States is that we have legislated our way into a position where the cars that are for sale are the worst possible choices.

              You can purchase an EV, but only if it is a high end luxury vehicle. I already have a minivan for taking lots of people on long trips. I almost don't care what sort of range the EV has. I am trying t

    • The thing Tesla got most right was building out a charging network to make their vehicles viable.

      What Tesla got most right is focusing on early adopters who tend to be wealthier and are more likely have homes that can be updated for home charging. Leading to just topping off the battery every night, full range in the morning. The public charging network is a secondary thing for a rare circumstance, a "cross country" trip (not literally cross country, more in the aviation sense of a certain distance from your home airport). So these charging stations can be few in number and yet remain uncrowded. Strate

    • The thing Tesla got most right was building out a charging network to make their vehicles viable.

      This is not relevant anymore. Not now that Tesla has opened up their chargers to NACS as a standard. Ford can use it just fine, charging is not the reason they are cancelling their cars.

  • Liquid batteries are obsolete (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Sunday August 25, 2024 @11:54AM (#64733734) Homepage Journal

    Toyota and Samsung are both coming to market with solid state batteries.

    ```
    Toyota says its breakthrough batteries will hit the market in 2027 or 2028, giving its EVs 745 miles of rangeâ"significantly greater than any gas-powered car todayâ"with 10-minute charging times.
    ```

    Ford is wise to avoid liquid battery EV's. They'll be a long-term liability with zero resale value.

    Once they make a small solid-state commuter not built around a computer, and with dials and guages instead of a giant glowing touchscreen billboard, they'll sell like hotcakes.

    No doubt they're working on licensing deals now.

    https://www.pcmag.com/news/toy... [pcmag.com]

    • Once they make a small solid-state commuter not built around a computer, and with dials and guages instead of a giant glowing touchscreen billboard, they'll sell like hotcakes.

      Dials and gauges? Just curious, what makes you assume anyone is interested in selling the idea of NOT squeezing that consumer data, right down to the juicy GPS detail, to any Board when the competition is busy creating even more revenue streams in every product with telemetry for sale, which has proven to be highly profitable? They’re going to go forward under the hood, but backward everywhere else? Not very likely.

      10 years from now the “cheap” model will make you agree to the daily EUL

      • Then again, no reason for them not to make the car charge for every touch of the door handle in addition to the lease. While we're at it, we can charge extra for the radio, bluetooth connectivity, headlights (driving after dark should cost extra, yes?) . . .

        Yeah, I'm gonna shut up now. Just forget I said anything.

    • My favourite thing about Toyota's announcement on batteries is that on the bottom of the page under the "related news" section there's literally 10 stories about hydrogen and zero stories about EVs.

      I'll take their announcement with a 25kg industrial bag of salt.

      Samsung's I can believe though. Maybe I'll eat humble pie in a few years. Actually let me rephrase. I *hope* I eat humble pie and can admit I was wrong in a few years. But I have my doubts that Toyota have done anything other than make some fancy ani

    • > Toyota and Samsung are both coming to market with solid state batteries.

      Yup, Toyota has had solid state batteries coming out any day now for the past ~16 years...

      The real question is how long it'll take until they'll be able to make them cost competitive with wet electrolyte cells. I'd wager another decade at least..

      The fact that you call them "liquid" batteries is a bit eyebrow raising, in that "I'm not sure you actually understand what you're talking about" kind of way.
      =Smidge=

  • What remains is a sad shell of a company that once made dozens of models.

  • Bah humbug! (Score:3)

    by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @12:28PM (#64733788)

    Volkswagen said this week it would wait to see where EV demand goes before building out the last three of its six planned battery factories. And now Ford has also cancelled its planned electric SUV and delayed production of an all-new electric pickup, according to CNBC, moves Ford now believes could cost up to $1.9 billion.

    Please stop making it sound like there is any chance that EVs are a passing fad. Those US and EU legacy automakers aren't waiting to: "... see where EV demand goes ...". EV demand is going to kill off ICE technology just like ICE tech killed off steam technology. They are waiting to see whether the US government and EU are going to do anything meaningful about the incoming mega tsunami of Chinese EV and battery dumping and nothing else, unless their CEO level has a brain eating worm infection which, in the case of Ford and VW, is absolutely a possibility.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sfcat ( 872532 )
      There isn't enough Lithium on earth (literally) to make that happen. There isn't enough enough Lithium to make that happen even if we had 10x more Lithium on earth than we actually have.

      • There isn't enough Lithium on earth (literally) to make that happen.

        Lithium is one of the most abundant elements on this planet. Your take is nothing more than massive ignorance. We have more than enough lithium in just mineral deposits to cover our battery needs for an EV takeover, to say nothing of seawater extraction of the mineral.

      • Or, for that matter, 'petroleum' - you do realize we're gonna run out of that stuff sooner or later, right? Lithium, we can keep recycling and making new batteries outta that stuff. Petroleum, not so much.

        Incidentally, fracking is just a fracking bad idea - but that's a different argument, and will only add a decade or two to the ultimate date when we'll physically run out of ancient sunlight to burn. Just to say, we pump the oil, we burn the oil, the oil's gone. We mine the lithium and make batteries,

  • Its the network stupid (Score:2, Informative)

    by Alascom ( 95042 )

    Tesla built cars and simultaneously built a charging network. Telsa invests between $60k-$350k per charging station and there are now almost 20,000 in the U.S. alone.

    Ford and others just built cars. Then they spent hundreds of millions lobbying the Government to create a national charging network, millions that could have been spent building chargers.

    The Government passed legislation for $7.5 billion to create a charging network. For Tesla, $7.5 billion would produce between 21,000 to 120,000 charging st

    • > The Government produced 7... $7.5 billion to create 7 charging stations in 2 years.

      What an idiotic take. It takes about 2 years to build a charging station. You're basically building a new power substation, there are a lot of permits you need to dig up the road to install a high power voltage line to a new location.

      And that's 2 years after you've identified where you want the charger, et cetera. So it takes longer than 2 years.

      So complaining that you don't have many chargers after 2 years is like

    • > The Government produced 7... $7.5 billion to create 7 charging stations in 2 years.

      "The government" approved funding which is distributed to the states. It's up to the states to distribute that funding to private companies who will actually do the building. So if there's been any failing in this process, it's the private sector, not the government.

      It's also worth mentioning that the funds are distributed in phases. Round one, which covers FY2022-2023, was about $615 million [driveelectric.gov]. Not all of that $615 millio

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by q_e_t ( 5104099 )
      The government also effectively subsided Tesla, so it would not be unreasonable to claim some of that network to be due to government funding.
    • You're wrong on your numbers. Tesla has ~7K total chargers in US - not 20K. Of those 7K only 2.5K are not destination chargers. Thats right only 2.5K superchargers.

  • Ford's COO told CNBC Thursday that "We're quite convinced that the highest adoption rates for electric vehicles will be in the affordable segment on the lower size-end of the range."

    Around my neighborhood, its all Teslas, Rivians*, Polestars, Lucids. Cybertrucks are big and I've seen a few Hummer EVs recently. "The Plan" appears to be to get poor and middle income poeple out of gas guzzling ICE vehicles and into mass transit. Leave the cars (nor EVs) for the wealthy to flex on the poors.

    *I was looking at Rivian pickup trucks but a friend of mine warned me that they have a very low production rate and might not survive as a company. Strange because often I see more Rivians parked at t

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      Doubt that fire last night helped anything at Rivian.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        Third one in a few days. Was Elon seen running from the plant with a flamethrower?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sfcat ( 872532 )
          Its probably more like in Goodfellas when they burned down that restaurant.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Khyber ( 864651 )

          I had a friend that worked at Rivian for a few months - safety? OSHA? PFFFFFFFFFT!

          Welders barely have welding masks for protection. There's hardly any ventilation. It's a fucking sweatshop, I'm not surprised the fucking place catches fire.

    • You don't see the car Ford is describing on the road because it doesn't exist in the US market. I'm patiently waiting for it to appear.

      When Ford stopped manufacturing affordable cars a few years back, I thought it was a poor long-term move to cede that segment to the foreign automakers. I guess they're finally realizing that. (It doesn't surprise me, I'm usually a bit ahead of the curve.)

      If the car Ford is describing doesn't appear, it's not going to make me buy an F-150. It's going to make me keep my 2001

  • Who will buy an EV if the only difference between the EV and gas vehicle is that it costs more? Elon Musk has it correct, to sell the dream of full self driving and basically living in the future alongside the car. I'm sure he faked it in the beginning but with this latest FSD (full self-driving) version 12.5 ... it is increasingly looking like a possible thing and that's with crappy sensor coverage and hardware.

    • iPad-on-wheels is only "correct" to a narrow range of tech bros and similar hypey bozos. That market's tapped out, which is why Tesla is tapped out.

      Whoever finally sells a decent EV that's reasonably sized, priced, and with normal controls, will probably lead the market for the next generation.

  • This is a decision based on what vehicles to manufacture to sell in the very near future. It tells us nothing about the long range future of EV's.

    The elephant in the room is that while EV sales have increased, so have sales of petroleum vehicles and total VMT. The vast bulk of any reduced emissions from the transportation sector is a result of the increased efficiency of the petroleum vehicles. We are junking low mpg vehicles while increasing the total number of vehicles, including the number of ICE vehicle

    • > The elephant in the room is that while EV sales have increased, so have sales of petroleum vehicles and total VMT.

      Vehicle sales were down 8% last year.

      • Not according to the federal reserve tracking: Federal Reserve Total Vehicle Sales (TOTALSA) But you are right, they are still down from their peak before COVID.

  • The problem is salesmen (Score:3)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @01:04PM (#64733854)
    It takes 2-3x as long for a salesmen to sell an EV as a gas car because of all the questions, so they're burying them in the lot.

    Microsoft had the same problem with their Windows phones. Google & Apple were giving salesmen incentives and they weren't, so they were stored at bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.

    If you want EVs to take off now that they're so common they don't make you feel special owning one you need to start giving direct incentives to salesmen to make up for the lost time.

    • What's a salesman? Do you actually go to people and ask about how a car works? Weird. I bought my car online.

  • Trucks and Pickup are where EV make least sense (Score:3)

    by godrik ( 1287354 ) on Sunday August 25, 2024 @01:38PM (#64733930)

    In the public view, EV suffers from range and getting stuck without power issues. Regardless of whether the core is actually there or not, this is how they are being perceived.

    So you'll mostly be able to sell commuter cars where range is not the issue.

    A lot of SUV and pickups that get sold are for "in case I need to do X, then I can". And these buyers are not going to go for the range anxiety SUV and pickup.

    (Note that I am not saying there are not lots of SUV because large families, or pickup because I haul furniture or work construction. I am saying a significant prat of the market are "in case I need it" people)

    • I would love to own a truck "in case I need it". But an electric or plugin would be perfect. Mostly the "in case I need it" trips are short runs where I am hauling something. If you needed a farm truck or other working vehicle, range would be an issue because you could end up spending the whole day driving it.

  • i want coupes or sporty sedans without any driving assist sensors or self driving features. just a car that is able to be driven aggressively when desired, uses standard components and has independent isolated systems so you can upgrade/repair something without impacting other things.

    give me the gm ecrate concept, throw it in a camaro, mustang, charger type vehicle and allow the power supply to be modular and open standardized so as battery tech advances, you can just switch to it with a simple software u

  • Bailout coming in 3...2...1... (Score:3)

    by fropenn ( 1116699 ) on Monday August 26, 2024 @12:28PM (#64736166)
    So Ford can't compete, and won't try to compete, and will not be prepared for what the future vehicles will be - which is all electric (except for a few fringe cases or truly recreational vehicles). Another company, with more foresight (and less navel gazing and focus on the next quarter's profits), will come along soon enough and eat Ford for lunch with its high-quality all-electric vehicles. And Ford will go crying to the feds demanding a handout...and blah blah jobs blah blah we, the taxpayers, will give it to them.

Slashdot Top Deals

Fundamentally, there may be no basis for anything.

Close