Citing EV 'Rollercoaster' In US, BMW Invests In Internal Combustion (msn.com) 63
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the Financial Times: BMW has pledged to continue investing in combustion engine and hybrid technology as it warned of a "rollercoaster ride" in the US transition to electric vehicles following the return of Donald Trump as president. Board member Jochen Goller said the group remained optimistic about sales of petrol and plug-in hybrids in the US even if demand for EVs slowed over the next few years on the back of policy changes under the new administration.
"I think it would be naive to believe that the move towards electrification is a one-way road. It will be a rollercoaster ride," Goller, who is in charge of customer, brands, and sales, told the Financial Times at BMW's headquarters in Munich. "This is why we are investing in our combustion engines," he said. "We are investing in modern plug-in hybrids. And we will continue rolling out electric cars." BMW faces significant challenges in the Chinese market, with a 13% decline in sales amid intensifying price competition and growing dominance of domestic brands. Analysts note that while the company still sees China as a growing market, pricing pressures and an overcrowded automotive sector pose ongoing risks to BMW's long-term positioning.
It'll likely become even more difficult for BMW and other automotive companies to gain market share in the Chinese market with BYD's latest announcement. The Chinese automaker said it will be offering its advanced "God's Eye" autonomous technology in mass-market EVs like the $9,500 Seagull, while expanding globally with government-based EV initiatives.
"I think it would be naive to believe that the move towards electrification is a one-way road. It will be a rollercoaster ride," Goller, who is in charge of customer, brands, and sales, told the Financial Times at BMW's headquarters in Munich. "This is why we are investing in our combustion engines," he said. "We are investing in modern plug-in hybrids. And we will continue rolling out electric cars." BMW faces significant challenges in the Chinese market, with a 13% decline in sales amid intensifying price competition and growing dominance of domestic brands. Analysts note that while the company still sees China as a growing market, pricing pressures and an overcrowded automotive sector pose ongoing risks to BMW's long-term positioning.
It'll likely become even more difficult for BMW and other automotive companies to gain market share in the Chinese market with BYD's latest announcement. The Chinese automaker said it will be offering its advanced "God's Eye" autonomous technology in mass-market EVs like the $9,500 Seagull, while expanding globally with government-based EV initiatives.
TFA Link (Score:3)
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EVs with adequate range are still too expensive
The average new car transaction price in the USA is approximately $49.7k. Cost really isn't the issue anymore, it's lack of charging infrastructure (possibly also mixed a bit with an unwillingness to make a 30 minute DCFC pit stop during road trips) and/or concerns over long-term battery calendar lifespan. A smaller, but probably still significant factor is that many Americans see their car as an extension of their identity, and EV ownership may not necessarily align with some folks' political leanings.
As
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Or is it the lack of $7500 handout where taxpayers helped pay for people's new cars?
Technically, the rebate is your own money. The government is saying "If you want to spend $7,500 of your tax dollars on an EV, you can have it back to do so." You'd think more conservatives would be on board with this, because then you know for damn sure that money isn't going to pay for underwater basket weavers in Venezuela to have sex changes.
It's amazing how big oil has been able to successfully manipulate the narrative and make some people hate the idea that they could have autonomy over how some of
Fuel (Re:Toyota was right to go with hybrid) (Score:1)
It's amazing how big oil has been able to successfully manipulate the narrative and make some people hate the idea that they could have autonomy over how some of their tax money is spent.
I'm amazed how "Big EV" has controlled the narrative that ICE equates to fossil fuels when carbon neutral fuels exist.
The problem is not the ICE, the problem is fossil fuels. Bring carbon neutral fuels to market and one of the biggest reasons for owning a BEV evaporates. Not needing to stop at a filling station for fuel must rank highly for buying a BEV but natural gas vehicles are a thing, and apparently quite popular for municipal vehicles like solid waste collection trucks, street sweepers, and common
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EVs with adequate range are still too expensive
The average new car transaction price in the USA is approximately $49.7k. Cost really isn't the issue anymore..
Uh, if you really believe cost isn’t the issue with an average price being damn near $50K for a car, do the quick math on what percentage of society YOU think can afford a $700+ car payment for the better part of a decade.
And that’s before you add the monthly auto insurance cost to insure THE most overpriced shitboxes ever made in the history of car making. Meaning it might last long enough for you to pay off the loan before it breaks or becomes fashionably obsolete.
Yes. Price still matters. L
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EVs with adequate range are still too expensive
The average new car transaction price in the USA is approximately $49.7k. Cost really isn't the issue anymore..
Uh, if you really believe cost isn’t the issue with an average price being damn near $50K for a car, do the quick math on what percentage of society YOU think can afford a $700+ car payment for the better part of a decade.
If they can't afford a Model 3 at ~$43k, then they also can't afford most new cars with gasoline engines, so those folks likely don't affect new car sales all that much.
And when they buy a used car, the probability of them getting an EV is likely to be roughly proportional to the percentage of new car buyers who bought an EV three to five years earlier, because that's what is going to be available on the used car market. That, in turn, makes them pretty much completely irrelevant to the discussion, period,
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That is the problem with the average. Add the prices of a Dacia and a Ferrari, divide by two and the result will look like everyone is driving a Porsche.
Also, most people don't buy new cars anyway.
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This issue is explicitly about politics. The CEO said that himself. And it should be no surprise, uncertainty is one of those things which comes along with corruption and holds back economic development in invisible but very significant ways. We've been throwing awa
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How can you invest in a country where your profits depend on the mood of the president?
I believe it would be more appropriate to use "voters" than "president". Trump didn't just decide to run for POTUS and got the job because he wanted it more than anyone else. He got the job because he convinced a plurality of eligible voters to show up and vote for him. Since there is a large overlap on eligible voters and people willing and able to purchase cars it would be best for automakers to offer vehicles that are attractive to those that are in that overlap of the Venn diagram.
What I'm seeing is
Re: Toyota was right to go with hybrid (Score:1)
Yeah...but even toyota isn't immune to cheaping out with hybrids. For a while they stopped putting 6 cyl engines in their hybrid powertrains and you'd end up with a 3800 lb SUV with a turbocharged 4 cylinder at best. Fine for most city driving I guess, but the numbers just didn't add up for being able to overtake at highway speeds if there's even an average grade. Highways where I drive happen to be full of those...so I just ended up getting a gas-only 6 cylinder.
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EVs with adequate range are still too expensive
In the US. Here is a nice review of Chinese cars: https://www.motortrend.com/rev... [motortrend.com]
As a result, China is now at more than 50% of new car sales being EVs. Their government set a goal of 50% sales by 2030, but it has already been achieved.
Re: Toyota was right to go with hybrid (Score:2)
I wonder how China's government's efforts compare with Norway's, who, iinm, are the real trail blazers when it comes to EVs.
Re: Toyota was right to go with hybrid (Score:3)
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Apples and oranges. The Norwegian government has had a very successful program focused on consumption, while China has had a very successful program focused on production, first and foremost.
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Well, I didn't buy an electric vehicle not because of the price, I purchase things that I like sometimes regardless of the price but because I want or need the thing. To me an EV is the opposite of freedom, it is a ball and a chain that would force me to plan my life around charging a vehicle, when in my life a vehicle is only a means of transportation for some of my cars and a way to enjoy myself while driving some of others. Basically an EV doesn't work for me on any level, either for transportation or
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EVs with adequate range are still too expensive, consequently what is affordable is not suitable as the only car for most people.
Statistics reflect that, most BEV owners have another vehicle that is an ICEV or PHEV.
However, plug-in and regular hybrids that Toyota mastered can get around limited EV mileage and lengthy charging times with on-board ICE. While they are slightly more expensive than ICE-only cars, they are still relatively affordable.
That makes me think that the payback time on the added cost over an ICEV is shorter than for a BEV. A BEV may have all miles as electric but a PHEV has most driving as elecrric since most driving is daily commutes and therefore within the range of all electric driving. The ICE in a PHEV is used on long trips, cold weather, power outages or forgetfulness that leaves the driver with an incomplete charge, or whatever. Wear
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Long range EVs have reached price parity with fossil fuel cars now. Sometimes they are even cheaper with available discounts.
MG are a good example to use. Long range cars that are cheaper than other brand's petrol models, and better built.
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...death cultist.
Did you mean to sign it this way instead of addressing? Because it is environmentalists that keep predicting extinction every few years, all the way starting in 70s.
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For every gas-guzzler that you pledge to buy, I pledge not to buy ten. Choke on those emissions, death cultist.
Major racing series are switching to e-fuels now, that is where development is headed and it will trickle down to road cars in time. Yes, for most people for whom a car is just another appliance BEVs are fine, but zero emissions ICE cars are the future for enthusiasts.
https://global.honda/en/tech/m... [global.honda]
No reason we can't have both - engaging cars and low emissions. BMW knows this. So does Porsche.
https://www.topspeed.com/porsc... [topspeed.com]
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It's Trump (Score:3, Informative)
I do wonder what Elon Musk is planning. It's clear from his $55 billion dollar pay package, the 5-year-old drivetrain on Teslas and The fact that without government subsidies he only makes $500 per car that he doesn't intend for the company to live all that much longer. He's going to get what he can out of it but I wonder what if anything are his plans after that.
Assuming we ever have another election (with how much voter suppression we had last cycle I have doubts) then he's going to lose his SpaceX contracts. The military considers him a national security risk after the stunt he pulled in Ukraine. He's always going to be rich of course because we don't put guys like him in the poor house.
I suspect his plan is to try and get into the treasury and start using a cryptocurrency that he personally controls for government payments thereby effectively making him our entire banking system, kind of like how China has that everything app. That's what he's been talking about with X for some time.
It remains to be seen if we're dumb enough to let him do it.
Re: It's Trump (Score:1)
Hey guy...whacky conspiracy theories about billionaires stealing your lunch money was *our* thing. I'll trade y'all back the antivax for it.
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I do wonder what Elon Musk is planning. It's clear from his $55 billion dollar pay package, the 5-year-old drivetrain on Teslas and The fact that without government subsidies he only makes $500 per car that he doesn't intend for the company to live all that much longer.
People still buy the Toyota Camry, and that's basically been the same car for damn near close to two decades. Swap out the cheese grater front grille and the whale-tail ass with their retro equivalents and you've got a car straight out of the early 2000s. If Toyota can do it successfully, Tesla can continue to milk their current lineup for many years to come. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with Tesla's 5-year-old powertrain; it still smokes most of the ICE vehicles on the road.
Musk's bigger proble
Wow, whoever posted this used in AI (Score:3)
Dude you do not know of what you speak (Score:2)
Musk's political antics are because his businesses are falling apart and he knows it. He's always relied on government programs for everything except for that one golden parachute he got from PayPal during the
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The Camry from today is a far cry from a Camry 20 years ago. There's no comparison in terms of safety, performance, build quality and features.
I'll give you that by going hybrid-only for the 2025 model year, Toyota has finally made some much needed changes to the car. But prior to that, they got away with selling a car with relatively poor performance for its class (unless you opted for the larger engine) for decades, and it still sold well. As you said though, those changes came with a much higher price tag.
By comparison, I've test driven a Model 3 and nothing about the car feels dated. Plus, when you stomp on it, there's no question about it
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Pretty much every electric car has excess power because otherwise the recuperation wouldn't be very effective.
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Absolutely none of that is true. You can get EVs with only moderate acceleration — this is true of every single EV supermini on the market with the exception of the Alpine a290, and even that’s not that fast (just under 7 secs). And those EVs all have good regen, enough to enable one-pedal driving.
What about the old i3 with Range Extender...? (Score:2)
Why not something like the i3 with the range extender? Something like that, I know people who swear by those because they are arguably the best of both worlds, especially here in the US where the power grid isn't really reliable in places.
Re: What about the old i3 with Range Extender...? (Score:2)
BMW makes a lot of motorcycle engines, so I guess they are still equipped to build hybrid drivetrains like that of the i3.
With battery density increasing, it could be possible to have that small displacement engine there idle most of the time just in case 100 or 200 miles of ev range are not enough.
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Risky move (Score:3)
Except there is no guarantee Trump will allow Germany to beach its lifeboat here. Trump is threatening 25% tariffs on EU auto imports. Does BMW's announcement mean they know something we don't?
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The oil price can't really go down without also adding more subsidies to fracking. Current levels of fracking in USA depends on the current high oil prices.
BMW just can't code (Score:2)
I own a BMW i3. I bought it new in late 2016. Since then I have driven or rented 6 other modern BMWs.
BMW should be legally restricted from doing anything with an electronic circuit involved.
By comparison, Tesla, BYD and Nio are substantially better. And if BYD is in business and they appear financially s
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BMW should be legally restricted from doing anything with an electronic circuit involved.
The best part about recent BMWs is how much "coding" you, the owner can do. Thousands of parameters affecting pretty much every element of the vehicle, it's actually pretty mind blowing. From lighting, HVAC and entertainment to braking, steering and stability control there is stuff you can tune in almost every ECU. At your own risk of course.
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/pr... [bimmergeeks.net]
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The truth is that only car company with a decent UX department for their infotainment is Tesla.
Up to the point that I consider Tesla an IT company that installs it's software on car-shaped hardware.
And the trend of moving everything to a touch screen does not work for cars, even with good UI/UX design.
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Dysfunctional country (Score:3)
I'm sure a lot of multinationals are looking at the US as a lost cause right now. How can you do business in a country that is being run with the sole purpose of exacting petty retribution on as many people as possible.
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The American dream is to do what you want and to make money doing something you're good at.
Not to be cuddled by a government to the point where people get stuck in arrested development with a childlike mentality where think they should get whatever they want for free and can throw a tantrum when they don't.
In the end Trump massively upsetting the economy is going to be a positive thing, but it will get messy at first as the deck is getting reshuffled.
EVs aren't about being green for most (Score:2)
All this focus on EVs and the environment misses the point. I didn't buy 2 EVs to save the planet. I bought them because EVs are far cheaper to run than ICEs, and they're far more reliable. There are no $250 oil changes every 3 months or annual "service intervals" at $2K a pop. It's also significantly cheaper to fill an EV than an ICE. Our main EV (Model X) used $1700 in electricity last year with zero scheduled maintenance to cover 28K miles. That's $0.06/mile. The SUV we had before that cost $110 to fill
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What an admission by BMW (Score:2)
With this, they’re effectively saying they’re caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. On one side, Trump’s America which he’s committed to ICE (so this announcement makes sense) and tariffs on steel and quite possibly EU autos in the future (so this announcement makes less sense). OTOH, there’s China, which was a growth driver for them, but in which they’re losing ground and profitability due to Chinese OEMs’ offerings and a market focused on EVs. And then t