Tesla Launches Base Model 3 For $35,000 With Shorter Range, New Interior (electrek.co) 265
In a call with reporters Thursday, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the company is finally launching the long-promised standard Model 3 with a base price of $35,000. "The automaker is now making several new versions of the Model 3 available with a shorter range and new interior options," reports Electrek. From the report: Today, Tesla sent an email to its retail stores the details of the announcement of the new options being available to order in the U.S. today and available as soon as next month. All the details are expected to become available in the next hour, but here's what we know so far: Customers are now able to order the $35,000 Model 3 with a standard interior and standard battery pack enabling 130mph top speed and 5.6s 0-60s acceleration. Tesla is also making a new "Partial Premium Interior" with better seats than the standard interior available with a different "standard range plus" battery pack for a $2,000 premium. The Model 3 Standard Range Plus results in 240 miles of range, a top speed of 140mph, 0-60mph acceleration of just 5.3 seconds. Tesla says that deliveries are starting within the next 2 to 4 weeks depending on the configuration in the U.S. In Europe, Musk said it will be available to order within the "next 3 to 6 months."
Slashdot reader Rei provides additional details: The new unveiling introduced a whole slew of variants, including (price, range, top speed, 0-60, premium):
SR: $35K, 220 miles, 130mph, 5.6 seconds, non-PUP
SR+: $37K, 240 miles, 140mph, 5.3 seconds, partial-PUP
MR: $40K, 264 miles, 140mph, 5.2 seconds, PUP
LR: $43K, 325 miles, 140mph, 5.0 seconds, PUP
AWD: $47K, 310 miles, 145mph, 4.5 seconds, PUP
P: $48K, 310 miles, 162mph, 3.2 seconds, PUP
Pricing, ranges, and features have by and large significantly surpassed initial promises. For example, the Long Range (LR) variant was supposed to be a $9K premium over SR, with the Premium Upgrades Package another $5k, but now PUP is included in LR and the price difference is only $8K. Range and performance specs have been upgraded not just on new vehicles, but will also be upgraded on existing vehicles, where applicable, via software update. The price for Autopilot has dropped from $5K to $3K, and some features once planned to be premium-only -- including the glass roof and auto dimming, power folding, heated side mirrors -- are now standard. The Model S and X product line has also been modified, with higher performance at the top end and lower prices at the bottom.
To achieve cost savings, in addition to production optimizations and the recent layoffs, Tesla announced an unexpected strategy: they're closing most of their stores. Sales will only be conducted online. Instead of test drives, cars can be returned within 7 days or 1,000 miles at no charge. "Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free," Tesla said in their blog post.
SR: $35K, 220 miles, 130mph, 5.6 seconds, non-PUP
SR+: $37K, 240 miles, 140mph, 5.3 seconds, partial-PUP
MR: $40K, 264 miles, 140mph, 5.2 seconds, PUP
LR: $43K, 325 miles, 140mph, 5.0 seconds, PUP
AWD: $47K, 310 miles, 145mph, 4.5 seconds, PUP
P: $48K, 310 miles, 162mph, 3.2 seconds, PUP
Pricing, ranges, and features have by and large significantly surpassed initial promises. For example, the Long Range (LR) variant was supposed to be a $9K premium over SR, with the Premium Upgrades Package another $5k, but now PUP is included in LR and the price difference is only $8K. Range and performance specs have been upgraded not just on new vehicles, but will also be upgraded on existing vehicles, where applicable, via software update. The price for Autopilot has dropped from $5K to $3K, and some features once planned to be premium-only -- including the glass roof and auto dimming, power folding, heated side mirrors -- are now standard. The Model S and X product line has also been modified, with higher performance at the top end and lower prices at the bottom.
To achieve cost savings, in addition to production optimizations and the recent layoffs, Tesla announced an unexpected strategy: they're closing most of their stores. Sales will only be conducted online. Instead of test drives, cars can be returned within 7 days or 1,000 miles at no charge. "Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free," Tesla said in their blog post.
Closing their stores? (Score:3, Interesting)
The one part that I think doesn't signal they are doing well is the closing of the stores. I know where I am there is a Tesla store in the mall and it's always packed. Granted, where I live (S. Fla) is a haven for Tesla vehicles - but still - I think cars are something people want a shopping experience with and I feel this will be a mistake for Tesla.
Re:Closing their stores? (Score:5, Insightful)
cars are something people want a shopping experience with
No. That is literally the worst part of car ownership.
Re:Closing their stores? (Score:5, Insightful)
Haggling with the salesman is the worst part of car ownership. Test drives are (for me) an absolute requirement. I will not spend thousands on something I can't thoroughly evaluate beforehand.
Re:Closing their stores? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can be successful at it and still hate every minute of it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
cars are something people want a shopping experience with
No. That is literally the worst part of car ownership.
Then you've been buying cars from the wrong places. Dodgy Dave's used car emporium is like shopping at poundland, you're not there for the ambience, you're there to buy things for a quid each. I tend to shop at nicer places than Poundland.
When buying a £30,000 car I expect someone who knows what their doing and a little bit of ceremony on delivery. When I picked up my M240i the BMW dealer gave me a short unveiling ceremony and a quick run down of the car. Sure it wasn't much but the fact they wante
Re:Closing their stores? (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble is that when you actually want to buy the car, you're at some point going to get shuffled into a room with the slimy 'finance' guy who'll waste an hour of your time trying to swindle and guilt you into paying for crap you don't want (and in most cases, you'll deal with other annoying "oh, you can't get that price.. Oh, ok.. let me go check with my manager" [wait 20 mins] on repeat before you get there). The dealerships I bought from are dead to me. In their world, this stuff still happens. I moved on a long time ago and I see exactly what they are.
Re: (Score:2)
or... skip all that nonsense and just order it online like you would any other product.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
How do you get scammed at CarMax? They are relatively expensive, but they don't haggle so you know exactly what the car costs up front.
No BS dealership telling you one cost, then changing that because they were mistaken about the number of discounts you qualify for (oh sorry, we thought you were an active duty kindergarden teacher with only 1 leg, our mistake), or requiring you to fist fight the finance guy over addons (warranty, undercoating, whatever) and how much you are actually paying for the car (you
Re: (Score:3)
About 90,000 new "locations" for you test drive one were delivered last quarter, with an expected 300,000 more or so to come by the end of the year. As a Tesla owner myself, I can vouch for the fact that virtually any Tesla owner would be happy to talk about and show our vehicle to you. If you're even casual friends with the person, no doubt they'd let you take it for a spin as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Closing their stores? (Score:5, Informative)
The one part that I think doesn't signal they are doing well is the closing of the stores.
Tesla never wanted stores in the first place. Part of their business model right from the start was a desire to upend the existing "dealership" model. They were forced to open stores because the laws in some (many?) states prohibited manufacturers from selling direct to consumers.
Re: (Score:3)
No such laws in most of Europe. The stores are just because people don't want to spend â100,000 on a car they haven't even seen in the flesh, let alone had a chance to test drive.
I guess they feel that now they have reached critical mass and no longer need to offer those opportunities. Will be interesting to see if it works.
Re: (Score:2)
That is literally the opposite of what happened. They couldn't direcly sell vehicles at their stores in some places because of the "dealership model" which is why their "stores" only let you test drive and tell you about the car. You then have to buy the car online anyways. You CANNOT hand anyone at the store a bag of cash and drive away with a car.
Closing stores? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Shifting all sales online, combined with other ongoing cost efficiencies, will enable us to lower all vehicle prices by about 6% on average, allowing us to achieve the $35,000 Model 3 price point earlier than we expected. Over the next few months, we will be winding down many of our stores, with a small number of stores in high-traffic locations remaining as galleries, showcases and Tesla information centers. The important thing for customers in the United States to understand is that, with online sales, anyone in any state can quickly and easily buy a Tesla.
Re: (Score:2)
It would have been far smarter to alter the nature of Tesla stores. Instead of just selling their cars, they should have started selling a range of other automotive stuff. Their vehicles could also probably use a display redesign. Two displays, a basic one for car functions built in and a lockable dock of a tablet, as a digital services expansion on the vehicle. So you could buy the vehicle and then come back to bay a particular model of the tablet, more features, more capable, larger size, add another lock
Re: (Score:2)
Congratulations, you just created a market in Tesla dockable tablets. Now thieves have a reason to smash car windows and steal them.
Re: (Score:2)
What else, Tesla branded phone, Tesla branded clothing and Tesla branded consumables,
I'm wearing Tesla branded underwear right now!
Although, I suspect it has nothing to do with the car brand "Tesla"- got it off Amazon and actually some of the most comfortable undies I've worn!
So yeah, there is already a clothing company called Tesla, they make decent stuff... I suspect they're not the same "Tesla" though.
You get a 7-day, 1,000-mile evaluation instead! (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently Tesla is giving potential customers 7 days of full possession and 1,000 miles of test drive instead, if I understood it correctly.
That seems enormously superior to sniffing around in a showroom for an hour, to me at least.
Re:You get a 7-day, 1,000-mile evaluation instead! (Score:5, Insightful)
If Tesla were smart, they'd cut a deal with someone like Hertz or Avis, so that if you wanted to test-drive a Tesla, you could go rent one for a week (at some non-free price that would be considered a fair price if you were just renting it to drive for a week while traveling), then apply the price of up to 4 rental weeks from the past year to the purchase price of a Tesla if you decided to buy one.
IMHO, that would kill two birds with one stone... it would avoid the problems of dealing with returned cars from people who changed their minds (since the same cars would be rented over and over), while simultaneously drawing in potential buyers who might decide to rent a Tesla for a week while on vacation & decide that they absolutely LOVED it. It also minimizes the impact of regional availability... a family from a small town in North Dakota or Montana could rent a Tesla while vacationing in Orlando, Miami, or Las Vegas for a week just as easily as a family from Seattle or Atlanta. It also minimizes the risk to the people trying one out... if even a "normal" rental car in Miami is going to cost $200 for the week, and you can get a Tesla for $50-100 more, lots of people who might not have gone out of their way just to rent a Tesla in their hometown might say "fuck it, I'm on vacation, gimme the Tesla!"
Honestly, I think their BIGGEST problem would be supplying with the rental car company with enough cars to satisfy the demand. They probably WOULD have to start off for the first year or two by limiting it to just a couple of very popular vacation markets... say...
year 1: Orlando and Las Vegas
year 2: Miami, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Chicago
year 3: every remaining international airport in Florida, plus every city that currently HAS a Tesla showroom. I'd expect that over time, places like South Florida would probably have Tesla-equipped Avis/Hertz locations at BOTH the airport AND some off-airport suburban locations that seriously blurred the line between "rental car office" and "de-facto Tesla showroom".
Their biggest problem would be convincing Hertz or Avis to keep the cars in circulation for 2-3 years instead of replacing them all annually (since otherwise, Tesla would be struggling just to keep the rental car company fully supplied, let alone anyone else).
Re: (Score:2)
Yes it is a genius idea. Until you factor in how disgusting rental cars are when returned and the amount of mechanical abuse rental cars receive. I would assume that Tesla would want to give the best possible impression to their customer as possible. Relying on a car that is managed by a rental agency as the quality representative for future sales is very risky.
Re:You get a 7-day, 1,000-mile evaluation instead! (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you normally use rent-a-wreck or something? I rent a lot cars traveling for business and with very few exceptions the cars I get from Enterprise are fairly new, virtually never more than 3 years old, with impeccably cleaned interiors.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:You get a 7-day, 1,000-mile evaluation instead! (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that you actually have to pay for it.
I mean, before I plunk down $35,000 for a car, I’d like to try it out first. Maybe take it for a test drive or something. And I don’t even want to think of the issues of financing that purchase and then deciding I don’t want the car...
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, buying an entire car just to evaluate the drive against competitors is a vastly superior to just going to a dealership and drive the thing for free.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Nah, the odometer will just say 5 miles.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
All new cars have a few dozen or sometimes a few hundred miles on the clock when you receive them, as they're driven with trade plates during commissioning.
You didn't think a new car arrives shrink-wrapped to your door for you to unbox, did you?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You're assuming that the same car isn't returned more than once.
Re: (Score:3)
"Your wife was a virgin when you met."
Re: (Score:2)
"Your wife was a virgin when you met."
Mine most certainly was!
(she was still 14 when we met... we didn't date until 6 years after we met)
Re: (Score:2)
By killing the stores, Tesla appears to be counting on word of mouth to sell cars. The people on here that think buying a car online is a good idea probably have friends with a Tesla and have had at least a little hands on. A seriously stripped down model that only comes in one color seems just the trick for people that want to be able to say "I own a Tesla". Thanks but no thanks.
Re: (Score:2)
So the question is which will sell more:
Car @ $40k - no store, but free return
Car @ $42.5 - you get to sit in a car and (presumably) do a test drive
(picking the $40k option as a representative middle ground)
as to the cost of doing returns, If we guess that 10% are returned, and those are then re-sold at a 15% discount, that's a cost of ~ $600/sale (ignoring the cost of delivery/collection)
Re: (Score:2)
For Tesla fanboys, the lower price will definitely drive more sales. Problem is: there is a limited amount of fanboys. Once they all have their car, you'll have to sell them to Regular Joe which is way, way harder.
The million dollar question is: how many fanboys are there? And are new fanboys created by word-of-mouth? I certainly don't know.
Of course it's stupid to think anybody in their right mind would order and buy a car in order to just evaluate it, while you can simply go to any Hyundai, Kia, Volkswage
Re: (Score:2)
For Tesla fanboys, the lower price will definitely drive more sales. Problem is: there is a limited amount of fanboys. Once they all have their car, you'll have to sell them to Regular Joe which is way, way harder.
Consumer Reports recently dropped Tesla Model 3 as a recomended car. They seem to be shipping with lots of defects.
I want Tesla to do well, I guess you would call me a semi-fanboy (I like the look of the Rivians more though- although that's definitely out of my price range). I wouldn't buy a Model 3 though because they are problematic. Dropping the price doesn't change that.
Dropping price will help sell to some Regular Joes- but any who do their homework will probably be put off. I am. I'll stick with
Well of course it's no charge (Score:4, Funny)
Instead of test drives, cars can be returned within 7 days or 1,000 miles at no charge
After a thousand miles driving, I'd say it's pretty obvious there's going to be no charge.
Hyundai Kona Electric (Score:5, Interesting)
The Hyundai Kona Electric is now available to order with deliveries on Mar 15. Its 37000 or 27000 after tax breaks in California. 260 Mi range and an SUV rather than a Sedan.
The only problem is its so much in demand even though the MSRP is 37000 dealers are charging 41000 as its a better car than the 42000$ Model 3.
Now that the 35000$ Tesla has got released maybe the price premium on the Kona Electric will go down
Thanks Elon. I was in 2 minds about the Kona Electric purchase. Your timely move will let me get it for $27K. (Note its still cheaper than the base model Model 3 as Hyundai gets the entire 10K tax break)
Re: (Score:2)
Is it a rich person tax break or a rich person discount? I've lived in full 3 bedroom houses worth the price of that car.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes it is a rich person tax break but then so does anything to do with the Green Movement - whether it is the National Park system which only the upper middle class can afford to go enjoy, the solar panel subsidies which only upper middleclass homeowners can afford or embassies all around the world to help stranded travellers (again dont think too many people working minimum wage jobs are travelling internationally)
A govts primary job is to protect the rich from the poor and shift as much money as possible
Re: (Score:2)
whether it is the National Park system which only the upper middle class can afford to go enjoy,
I go to National Parks BECAUSE I can't afford to go anywhere else. If you think you need to be wealthy to go to a National Park you're crazy. Some of the best places to go for those of us who don't have the money they would like.
Re: (Score:2)
Its not the entry fees. Its the fact people cant afford to miss the days of no wages to get to the park.
Re: (Score:2)
Is it a rich person tax break or a rich person discount? I've lived in full 3 bedroom houses worth the price of that car.
I agree that spending $41,000 on a car is crazy - But I suspect very few people walk into a dealership with a bank draft for $41K + sales taxes. Most of them either "lease" or finance over 84 months.
Re: (Score:2)
Uh, my wife and I only pay cash for cars.
That may very well be, but as I said upthread "very few" people do this. You're one of the very few.
I suspect many posters here would also tell you it's sometimes penny-wise and pound foolish to spend $65K cash on a car when you can sometimes get 0.9% dealer financing. Finance the car, and put the $65K in the market earning 7% - That way the money is working for you.
Not all debt is equal.
(But you're going against my fundamental wiring anyway. To me, sp
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Its a question of perspective obviously. When I started working over 15 years ago I thought you had to be insane to pay over 15k for a car and we used to discuss what a stupid waste of money it was to spend so much to move from point a to point b.
These day I own a long range model 3 and it wasnt that big of a purchase. It was a bit of an indulgence but nothing too crazy. Shit compared to the home loans I have for various tenements its nothing, Iâ(TM)m millions down the hole in loans ( yeah that still sounds bizare to me to say that but it only take a few building and before you know it..)
Obviously what car people buy, and why they decide to buy it is an individual's decision and there are very few right or wrong answers.
However, multiple studies have shown that people's enjoyment of their car, and their satisfaction of their car is not related to how much they spend for their car. Customer satisfaction is no higher in higher priced cars than lower priced cars- nor is their expressed joy at driving more expensive cars. (yeah, I'm sure people will respond with personal anecdotes where they
How is it "better"? (Score:5, Insightful)
260 Mi range and an SUV rather than a Sedan.
Does it have AWD, or even an option? Doesn't seem ike it from the specs.
Any quick charge ability? Again reading through the product page, seems like an overnight charge,
6.2 inches of ground clearance - Just 0.3 inches more than a MINI countrman, 0.7 more than a model 3 so claiming it is "an SUV" is kind of misleading.
60 mph in 6.4 seconds.
Not sure in what way this car is actually better, except maybe a bit more interior cargo space. By any other metric it is not as good or useful.
As someone else said in another comment, without some approach to long range quick charging it's not a viable option for a lot of people (though I guess you could buy a Kona Electric for everyday use, then a Tesla for roadtrips and return it).
Re: (Score:2)
Keep in mind that you need to compare with the $35k Model 3, which is similarly priced.
I'm glad I cancelled my Model 3 pre-order now and got a Kia Niro. It's similar to the Kona. The comparison is about what I expected.
Model 3 Pros
+ Slightly more sporty performance
+ Supercharger access
Cons
- Lower range
- Smaller (https://youtu.be/2OM1UsEAPe4)
- Very noisy (https://youtu.be/GzQdkwmq78s)
- Not so good (auto wipers are jank) in the rain (https://youtu.be/hCv_Ha0oWjE)
- Touch only controls for a lot of essential st
Re: (Score:2)
Manual cloth seats are a bonus. Leather (or more commonly, "Nappa Leather", aka plastic) looks nicer, but it's inferior in every other way.
Touch controls suck, though
Re: (Score:2)
Kona and Niro have real leather, much nicer. Also heated and ventilated seats for the same price as the base M3 that lacks them.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah honestly I wasnt too sure about the touch controls but now when I use my wife volt instead of the model 3 the buttons everywhere feel kind of quaint. I really prefer touch now.
It's perfectly reasonable for automakers to put touch controls into vehicles right now, because they seem modern and cool. But they are actually inferior, because you have to look at the screen. They will make all the sense in the world in self-driving cars, but as long as you're responsible for driving, they are a horrible idea from the standpoint of people who don't want to die.
Re: (Score:2)
There can be a balance between the number of buttons and the number of touch-screen functions. The M3 doesn't have enough buttons, e.g. you have to use the screen to adjust the windscreen wipers (the auto function is janky) which is clearly a terrible idea. Reduced visibility and you are forced to fiddle with the touch screen.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh and to answer your question, it can charge at 100kW.
The shape is a CUV, kinda sub SUV but you get a hatch back (Model 3 rear door is very small and lets water in) and it's taller and easier to get in and out of.
Re: (Score:2)
Does it have AWD, or even an option? Doesn't seem ike it from the specs.
Speaking as a Canadian - basically no one needs AWD, just buy appropriate tires.
6.2 inches of ground clearance - Just 0.3 inches more than a MINI countrman, 0.7 more than a model 3 so claiming it is "an SUV" is kind of misleading.
Its a cross-over which is the most popular car type these days /shrug
Not sure in what way this car is actually better
Well, it comes from a real car manufacturer with a proven record of reliability. So you know it won't arrive with say a wheel different than the others and be in constant need of repairs.
As someone else said in another comment, without some approach to long range quick charging it's not a viable option for a lot of people (though I guess you could buy a Kona Electric for everyday use, then a Tesla for roadtrips and return it).
Their site says an hour to 80% /shrug
Re:How is it "better"? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you can use one of the handful of 150kW (or above) chargers currently installed across the USA. Otherwise, it's going to take a lot longer.
You get used to the display position very quickly. Besides, some of us got used to driving the original Minis.
Only in town. Model 3 has higher efficiency at freeway speeds and higher overall MPGe.
There are very few CCS chargers that deliver more than 50kW, so charging is typically going to be slower than any Tesla. Also, those chargers are not as convenient for road tripping -- they are much more likely to be in a city than along a highway. When I looked last year, there were large cities in the USA that you could not get to in a Chevy Bolt, without charging for hours at a level 2 charger. It's getting better, but has a long way to go before it matches the Supercharger network
There is plenty of legroom in a Model 3. It's one of the very few cars that I have driven in which I don't put the seat all the way back.
Re: (Score:2)
If you can use one of the handful of 150kW (or above) chargers currently installed across the USA. Otherwise, it's going to take a lot longer.
Same is true for the Model 3 in Europe. Even once they finish rolling out CCS chargers to Tesla locations, they are still very sparce or non-existent in many places.
Model 3 has higher efficiency at freeway speeds and higher overall MPGe.
Kona and M3 are about equal on the highway for efficiency. In any case, at highway speeds the Kona gives you significantly better range.
There is plenty of legroom in a Model 3.
There is. The main issues are it being quite low compared to CUV shape cars like the Kona, and that the boot/trunk entrance is very narrow which limits its utility.
Re:How is it "better"? (Score:5, Insightful)
It has heated and cooled seats
So does the Model 3. [teslarati.com]
I drove a friends Model 3 and it is very disconcerting to have to look to your right
I drive a MINI with the speedometer in the middle of the dash, that is not a problem at all after a day or two.
It has 260 miles and access to CCS and ChargeAmerica
That range is OK although personally for a long road trip I think 300 would be a minimum, especially as you drain the car for various uses (like seat heaters).
I'm glad they have something but it still seems like Tesla has a much more expansive quick-charging network.
Rear visibility. The Model 3 is really difficult to get a clear rear view
I'll believe that when I see it as ALL new cars have incredibly poor rear visibility now, sloping roof or not.
In fact I do not believe it at all when I look at the rear shots of the Kona Electric [hyundaiusa.com] (about fourth image from top), that is a tinier rear area to see through even than the Model 3 (especially with the roof being glass)! It is the typical no-visibility rear view window you find on every crossover SUV today.
And if you are doing a long 400 mile drive would you rather do it in a cramped sedan or a SUV with more legspace.
The Model 3 has a lot of leg space (my friend has one), these small crossover SUV's can often be worse depending on how they have allocated the cargo area.
I can tell you for sure I'd rather be in a Model 3 than a Rav4 for example....
Re:Hyundai Kona Electric (Score:5, Informative)
LOL. Are people still pretending that the Kona is an "SUV"? Have you sat in the back seat? It's only suitable for amputees. It's a "CUV", which only describes form factor, not size.
The problem is not demand but production. They're making them in tiny quantities, because Hyundai earns basically nothing on its EVs. [goauto.com.au]
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously I have not sat in one as its not available to general public yet but all reviewers have given it much better reviews than Model 3 as far as internal space is concerned.
The SUV movement in the US is more about a high driving position with better visibility than any real Sport or Utility. Noone takes their SUVs offroading. THey take them to the Safeway and want to have a high driving position so that if they have an accident they are not in a sedan where the SUVs bumper might come into your windshie
Re:Hyundai Kona Electric (Score:5, Insightful)
Tesla unfortunately for them has to make money on each car but thats not my problem.
Munro & Assoc. claims that Tesla will make a profit even at $35k. They didn't start sooner because they had many customers at a higher price point, and more profit is better... plus they did need the money
Re: (Score:2)
Tesla said today that they are losing money now. They may eventually make a profit on $35k cars, once they get the service issues sorted out to reduce warranty costs, and further increase volume and manufacturing efficiency/yield.
Their real problem is the battery packs though. Cylindrical cells are not cheap and add significant extra weight. They need to switch to pouch to be competitive with Korean manufacturers on price per kWh, which means big investment and probably some significant patent licences.
Re: (Score:2)
Their public statements to shareholders indicate that they do not expect to make a profit in the next six months, maybe the whole year.
Re:Hyundai Kona Electric (Score:5, Interesting)
Which was proven false. Tesla loses money on every car it has ever built.
Sure, after R&D and Capex, but what the rest of the class is talking about is whether the vehicle is profitable to make if you're accounting for current expenses, like materials, labor, power, and the like. Try to keep up. As long as they're making a day-to-day profit selling vehicles, which they are doing, they're making up their deficit.
Tesla has never made a profit in its entire existence
Sure.
and never will.
Possible.
They are gonna be out of business very soon now.
Trolls like you have been saying that for years now.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, you just waved away R&D and CapEx, which is actually the same thing, proving that you know nothing about finance.
R&D is CapEx if it turns out to be feasible, otherwise it's OpEx, why not just describe it separately? Especially since all the anti-Tesla trolls claim that none of it is feasible?
Re: (Score:3)
Tesla has had positive gross margins for much of the past decade, and has been net profitable - despite reinvesting in an extremely rapid growth rate - for the past half year.
Re:Hyundai Kona Electric (Score:4, Informative)
What market are you in? Kona Electric has been out in Europe for quite a while.
Name one. I've been in in both. It's not even close.
No, a SUV is a large vehicle built on a truck frame. A CUV is a vehicle have a SUV-like form factor, but of any size (large or small) and with unibody construction.
I'm warning you for your own good: if you're waiting for the Kona because you're expecting it to be some "SUV", you're going to be seriously disappointed. This is the back seat. [automobilemag.com]. Here's the size of the vehicle [ytimg.com] compared to a person. That doesn't mean "don't get the car". As far as non-Tesla EVs go, there's nothing "wrong" with it. But it's not an "SUV". Keep your expectations in check.
(Model 3, by contrast, is much larger inside than most people expect, particularly in the front).
BTW: If you're looking for an EV like the Kona (aka non-Tesla) whose back seat isn't cramped, I'd recommend the Kia Niro. Its front and trunk are pretty similar in size to the Kona, but its rear seat is much larger. [autocar.co.uk] Hyundai and Kia have a manufacturing partnership, so their vehicle lines are pretty similar.
Re: (Score:2)
No, a SUV is a large vehicle built on a truck frame.
Not really. Might have been true ~20 years ago. Today, I believe the only truck framed SUVs still available new are the Toyota 4Runner and the truck based Suburban (and derivatives), the Expedition, and some Jeeps.
Everything else is unibody. Pickups are still body on frame due to towing capacity.
m
Re: (Score:2)
The Niro is considerably bigger than the Model 3 though. It depends what you prefer - choice is good.
The limit on production is the number of batteries available. They already doubled this year from 20k to 40k, and LG is pushing to ramp that up even further.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is not demand but production. They're making them in tiny quantities, because Hyundai earns basically nothing on its EVs. [goauto.com.au]
Coincidentally neither does Tesla ;)
How about lemon laws? (Score:3, Informative)
Lemon and warranty laws allow you to return a car anywhere from 4 weeks to 3 months or even longer in some EU jurisdictions.
Not sure whether online sales get around local (sometimes down to city) laws but I'm sure 7 days won't fly in many places.
Re: (Score:2)
The US has some pretty good lemon laws, depending on the state. Of course, like most consumer/labor protection laws, companies in the US tend to bank on people not knowing and enforcing their rights.
Re: (Score:3)
In fact in the UK if you have bought a car online or have not had a test drive prior to receiving it you can reject it for any or no reason in the first two weeks.
It's still a hassle because there is paperwork, you might have finance or whatever, but you have that right.
Re: (Score:2)
Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction in the industry, you dipshit.
130mph is too slow. (Score:2)
Joke: It can only go a maximum of 130mph? Too slow. I'm not buying one.
Re: (Score:3)
except for german autobahn there is nowhere i can drive legally faster then 130mph.
even the 5.6 second accel is way too fast (for most people).
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
At the same time, we will be increasing our investment in the Tesla service system, with the goal of same-day, if not same-hour service, and with most service done by us coming to you, rather than you coming to us. Moreover, we guarantee service availability anywhere in any country in which we operate./quote?
Re: (Score:3)
That really is a joke. People are waiting 3 months for routine servicing right now, let alone repairs. There aren't enough loan vehicles either.
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Lucky you. It depends if your area is oversubscribed or not.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you have first hand experience on this subject? as a Tesla owner, my experience echos his. i've had the car 3 years and only had to service it once (for the "annual" service, and new tires ... that ludicrous mode, yo...)
i made an appointment, a week later i took my car in. easy as cake.
Re: (Score:3)
The answer to that is no.
AmiMoJo has a hatred for Tesla that burns so bright that you could point him at a solar panel and use him to charge one.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:What? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Coatings/wraps are pretty popular with Tesla owners. The paint is known to be a bit soft and expensive to replace, and also most of the cars they sell are $50k+ where it makes more sense to invest a few thousand in that kind of protection.
Re: (Score:2)
You nearly lost me at "greeted by a salesperson". You really did lose me at "negotiate".
These are the things most people hate about buying a car.
Re:What? (Score:4, Interesting)
Closing the stores? Where are you supposed to go to get the car serviced?
Service center, or use one of their mobile service options? I can't say I've ever driven my car back to a showroom for a service.
Re: (Score:2)
Do Teslas even have an odometer? Does Teslaplan on resetting it to 0 and shipping these cars as "new"?
Yes, I'd prefer to get a car with a 1000 miles on it if that meant I got a significant discount (the 25%+ lost when a car drives off the lot). I can also imagine people buying a Tesla when they need a car for a month with 100% intention to return it.
Re: (Score:2)
IANAL, but since so many laws are out there regarding odometers and how they are set, I don't believe it's legally possible to market a car without one. Rolling back the odometer would definitely get them in all kinds of trouble.
The only car that wouldn't have one might be something vintage from the early 20th or late 19th century that's grandfathered in. Even a custom car has to pass inspection and needs to make some kind of statement on the title regarding miles driven. Not being able to make that stat
Re: (Score:2)
In most European cars, the odometer is associated with the engine. If you change the engine, you are allowed to change the odometer to the distance run with the new engine.
Possibly we'll see some changes in law as the odometer probably better be replaced with a device showing the power provided by the battery.
Re: (Score:2)
20% off with 1000 miles on it? Yes, please.
Re: (Score:3)
CR also rated Model 3 as having the highest owner satisfaction of any car on the market.
As for the "reliability", when CR's methodology was challenged on their Reddit AMA, the CR guy responded, "Appreciate the feedback. Let me see what we can do. Breaking up the stuff that makes you break down on the side of the road is certainly more severe." CR themselves explicitly stated that the drivetrain was reliable; they marked the car down for paint and trim, with no attempt to control for the obvious bias that t
Re: (Score:2)
CR also rated Model 3 as having the highest owner satisfaction of any car on the market.
Most cult members like their choices too
Re: (Score:2)
I actually think the 3 is ugly and cheap looking.
Re: 1-minute Financing? Credit impact? (Score:2)
I don't understand your objection. If your credit is that shit, how are you going to buy the car anyway?
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Look up hard credit inquiries then.
Most middle class people have credit that is neither shit nor perfect and they finance their cars. Taking a years-long hit to your credit score to take a test drive is stupid.
Re: 1-minute Financing? Credit impact? (Score:4, Informative)
For the vast majority of those with a decent credit rating your "hard inquiry" will either not affect their score at all or will budge it a few points. Again, I don't see the problem. Credit inquiries are only an issue for those with a lot of debt (or those who have applied for a whole bunch of loans and then backed out for some stupid reason).
People get paranoid about this stuff but it's all based on a poor understanding of the system. I'm firmly middle class myself and have a credit score up over 820. When I do apply for new credit, my score tends to drop 5-10 points tops, for a few months, before bouncing back. Not exactly something to get wound up about. If I were stupid enough to get 5 new credit cards all at once it might drop down to the low 700s, but even that wouldn't impact me in any real way.
Re: (Score:2)
You're applying the wrong mindset to this. You're assuming people will test drive Teslas the way they test drive other cars. Tesla is obviously making a big bet that they can change this process without materially affecting sales. They may be wrong on this, but they'll have some data to support their approach, I'm sure. This is not about test driving a Tesla; this is about a no-quibble guarantee for people who have purchased a Tesla. The intention is to provide peace of mind on a sight unseen sale. The aim
Re: (Score:2)