Apple Targets Car Production By 2024 and Eyes 'Next Level' Battery Technology (reuters.com) 110
According to Reuters, Apple is moving forward with self-driving car technology and is targeting 2024 to produce a passenger vehicle that could include its own breakthrough battery technology. From the report: The iPhone maker's automotive efforts, known as Project Titan, have proceeded unevenly since 2014 when it first started to design its own vehicle from scratch. At one point, Apple drew back the effort to focus on software and reassessed its goals. Doug Field, an Apple veteran who had worked at Tesla Inc, returned to oversee the project in 2018 and laid off 190 people from the team in 2019. Since then, Apple has progressed enough that it now aims to build a vehicle for consumers, two people familiar with the effort said, asking not to be named because Apple's plans are not public. Apple's goal of building a personal vehicle for the mass market contrasts with rivals such as Alphabet Inc's Waymo, which has built robo-taxis to carry passengers for a driverless ride-hailing service.
Central to Apple's strategy is a new battery design that could "radically" reduce the cost of batteries and increase the vehicle's range, according to a third person who has seen Apple's battery design. [...] As for the car's battery, Apple plans to use a unique "monocell" design that bulks up the individual cells in the battery and frees up space inside the battery pack by eliminating pouches and modules that hold battery materials, one of the people said. Apple's design means that more active material can be packed inside the battery, giving the car a potentially longer range. Apple is also examining a chemistry for the battery called LFP, or lithium iron phosphate, the person said, which is inherently less likely to overheat and is thus safer than other types of lithium-ion batteries. [...]
Two people with knowledge of Apple's plans warned pandemic-related delays could push the start of production into 2025 or beyond. Apple has decided to tap outside partners for elements of the system, including lidar sensors, which help self-driving cars get a three-dimensional view of the road, two people familiar with the company's plans said. Apple's car might feature multiple lidar sensors for scanning different distances, another person said. Some sensors could be derived from Apple's internally developed lidar units, that person said. Apple's iPhone 12 Pro and iPad Pro models released this year both feature lidar sensors.
Central to Apple's strategy is a new battery design that could "radically" reduce the cost of batteries and increase the vehicle's range, according to a third person who has seen Apple's battery design. [...] As for the car's battery, Apple plans to use a unique "monocell" design that bulks up the individual cells in the battery and frees up space inside the battery pack by eliminating pouches and modules that hold battery materials, one of the people said. Apple's design means that more active material can be packed inside the battery, giving the car a potentially longer range. Apple is also examining a chemistry for the battery called LFP, or lithium iron phosphate, the person said, which is inherently less likely to overheat and is thus safer than other types of lithium-ion batteries. [...]
Two people with knowledge of Apple's plans warned pandemic-related delays could push the start of production into 2025 or beyond. Apple has decided to tap outside partners for elements of the system, including lidar sensors, which help self-driving cars get a three-dimensional view of the road, two people familiar with the company's plans said. Apple's car might feature multiple lidar sensors for scanning different distances, another person said. Some sensors could be derived from Apple's internally developed lidar units, that person said. Apple's iPhone 12 Pro and iPad Pro models released this year both feature lidar sensors.
The "me-too" Tesla (Score:4, Interesting)
Then I remembered how we slashdotters made fun of Apple for years for not releasing a smarphone, ceding the whole market to Nokia and Blackberry.
We can count on Apple... (Score:5, Funny)
We can count on Apple to make a car with the hood welded shut so you can't do any repairs or modifications to it, it'll be incompatible with every insurance company except Apple Care, and it will quietly get slower and not last as long on a charge as soon as next year's model is released.
Apple Care will be forced to have sr 22 then! (Score:2)
Apple Care will be forced to have sr 22 then! and have an sr 22 only plan. And be under state regulation for auto insurance
Well at least it won't be a Lemon (Score:2)
Cause it's an Apple.
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And when you plug in your I-car it will explode. [softpedia.com]
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We can count on Apple to make a car with the hood welded shut so you can't do any repairs or modifications to it, it'll be incompatible with every insurance company except Apple Care, and it will quietly get slower and not last as long on a charge as soon as next year's model is released.
And it will be the thinnest car ever, but Steve Jobs would fit inside just fine.
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And it'll only drive to approved destinations (so as to avoid risks presented by unsafe neighborhoods) and may not take you where you want to go, but you'll look really hip while driving it.
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if i can replace a differential, i can replace torque vectoring motors.
Why would you when they pretty much never fail?
i don't want to go poking around in software. a few bad keystrokes there and the car could be useless, or dangerous.
It's kind of funny you should say that since exactly the same is true physical repairs done badly. I see computer adjustment and physical adjustment as identical.
but i want to be able to do my own brake jobs, swap out ball joints, replace light fixtures
Why wouldn't you be abl
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Re: Incompatible with Evil (Score:2)
I would imagine the work would be similar even if the components differ. Tires, struts, ball joints, wheel bearings. Replacing a faulty component as long as you can reach it and not pull the motor.
Things like rewinding a motor would be outsourced.
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Apple also won't be targeting the 80% of people capable who like to own what they purchase.
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But also they generally will not break, and if they do you can take it to a Genius Garage and have whatever it is fixed for $99... although of course if you have AppleCare, they'll just give you a new car.
FWIW, this is off topic, but my wife had a 15" 2018 MBP (bought July 2018). We bought AppleCare for about $350. This year, at just over 2 years old, the MBP developed a charging problem where periodically it would not charge and the battery would completely discharge. Apple sent us a loaner while they replaced the motherboard (and charger, and keyboard as they noticed some wear on a few keys). Well, for whatever reason, the new logic board had the same charging issues.
One more call to Apple and, basically n
car repair for $99 at the dealer? Smokeing crack?? (Score:2)
car repair for $99 at the dealer? Smoking crack?? Try more like $999 / min for something that an non deal can do for half of less.
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Don't be stupid. That would be ugly as shit. The solution is not to have a hood at all.
Re: The "me-too" Tesla (Score:2)
Well, the last time I recalled apple saying they had a "breakthrough", they released the homepod, and look how that turned out: Not only was it pretty much useless, it also permanently stained your table.
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Apple doesn't have a great record on batteries either.
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Apple doesn't have a great record on batteries either.
Actually, they do.
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Apple doesn't have a great record on batteries either.
Actually, they do.
Sure, if by "great" you mean "garbage".
Apple underspecifies battery capacity for phones, knowing that they will degrade over time, then limits charge capacity later in device life which is necessary because of the underspecified battery, deliberately creating devices whose battery life will fall to unacceptable levels later in the device lifespan. This is done to cause the customer to return to an Apple store, where they may be reindoctrinated and additional sales can be induced (or at least attempted.)
If A
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Apple underspecifies battery capacity for phones, knowing that they will degrade over time, then limits charge capacity later in device life which is necessary because of the underspecified battery, deliberately creating devices whose battery life will fall to unacceptable levels later in the device lifespan. This is done to cause the customer to return to an Apple store, where they may be reindoctrinated and additional sales can be induced (or at least attempted.)
You are full of shit.
You also thought the M1 Macs were going to be a joke, too. How's that prediction panning out?
Re: The "me-too" Tesla (Score:2)
Apple's tradition of underspecification of batteries across multiple product lines is a well-known fact now. If you don't know, it's willful ignorance.
The M1 chip seems to be fast for short periods. Good for Apple.
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Apple's tradition of underspecification of batteries across multiple product lines is a well-known fact now. If you don't know, it's willful ignorance.
The M1 chip seems to be fast for short periods. Good for Apple.
But still no citations.
Oh, and the M1 seems to be fast for long periods, too:
Here's a test with a MacBook Air, which presents the worst-case scenario, having only Passive Cooling.
https://www.androidauthority.c... [androidauthority.com]
And here is a comparison of M1 and Intel Macs running 10 minute and 30 minute Cinebench R23 benchmarks. A couple of interesting things:
1. The M1 MacBook Pro actually gets faster over time.
2. Neither of the M1 Macs with fans show any significant throttling, even after 30 minutes. Even the passively-c
Re: The "me-too" Tesla (Score:2)
Am I the only one who remembers the old joke about Apple cars only able to run on 15% of the roads?
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The charging port will be underneath the car, so you will need to install a pit in your garage.
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But ... will it have a Headphone Jack ?
I hope not.
Talk about one of the most compelling use-cases for using BT headphones/earbuds...
I like to throw my phone into the (empty) passenger seat. Unfortunately, my headset cable unerringly gets caught under the parking-brake handle, which then causes me to be "caught up short" when I raise my head.
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It's illegal to drive while wearing headphones.
Amazingly enough, not where I live. Someone apparently challenged such a law a long time ago (back when "wearing headphones" really meant exactly that!), stating (rather cleverly), that since the state allowed totally deaf persons to drive, there was no compelling reason why a driver wearing headphones was any less safe.
News flash: Different places have different laws.
And besides, many noise-cancelling earbuds/headphones have a "Transparency mode"; so...
Intersting Wildcard (Score:1, Interesting)
So far it seems like the current auto industry has not really shown signs they understand how to compete with Tesla, or even demonstrate technologically they are able...
Apple could be one competitor that might give Tesla a run for its money... or they could be the other company that takes the remaining sales away from traditional auto makers that Tesla has not by that point (2025 is a long ways off and Tesla will have sold quite a few cars by then).
Tesla also has its own battery research though, so by that
Re:Intersting Wildcard (Score:4, Informative)
Maybe that's the case in the US but in Europe Tesla isn't the biggest seller of EVs. Other manufacturers are competing with them successfully.
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Yes but that was 2019, 2020 is a very different matter [insideevs.com].
Tesla EU sales were hampered by snags in EU production (COVID related) but Tesla was globally the top EV car seller of 2020 [insideevs.com]...
Basically Tesla sales are only limited for some time to come by production capacity.
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I thought we were talking about top-selling EV cars in Europe?
The first link was for the United States, and the second for the world.
I just followed a link on the second web page and found this for Europe though: https://insideevs.com/news/451... [insideevs.com]
That page says:
Plug-in car sales in Europe - September 2020
Here are the lists of the top models in particular xEV categories:
The top-selling model was the Tesla Model 3 (15,702), followed by Renault ZOE (11,023) and the all-new Volkswagen ID.3 (7,897), which however did not deliver the 5-digit result we thought it would for its debut month.
This indicates to me that the Reanult ZOE isn't that far behind Tesla Model 3 in Europe. BTW, the Volkswagen Golf sold 28731 cars in comparison to 15702 Tesla Model 3 [1].
Caveat: Numbers are from something I happened to see, I could be misreading them
My new iCar caught on fire (Score:3)
And Apple said I was "sitting in it wrong".
Re: My new iCar caught on fire (Score:3)
After two years, the iCar2 will keep driving slower and slower until it just stops, but at least it won't burn you. You can take the iCar2 to a third party repair shop to fix the slowness issue, but Apple will issue a software update that will shutdown your car while you're driving if a third party repair is detected, citing safety concerns. When you tow it to the Apple store, they tell you that your only option is to upgrade to an iCar3.
Re: My new iCar caught on fire (Score:2)
Oh and be careful with the iCar3, if you sit in it wrong the frame will bend, and Apple won't fix it as that's not considered to be a defect.
apple car shutdownes on hiway leading to pinto (Score:2)
apple car shutdowns on highway leading to an pinto like firebomb
Let me guess... (Score:2)
...the charger cord (not included) will be an extra 10 grand, and the only way you'll be able to get maintenance on it is if you purchase AppleAutoCare, also an extra 20 grand...
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"...the charger cord (not included) will be an extra 10 grand, and the only way you'll be able to get maintenance on it is if you purchase AppleAutoCare, also an extra 20 grand..."
And another 10 grand for the next model, because the new one won't fit the old charger.
Re: Let me guess... (Score:2)
And it too will only be 2.5m in length.
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If an indy repair shop tries to change the brake pads, it'll lock out the speedo display for "security."
God help us! (Score:1)
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Because it will "just work" for 90+ percent of the population?
Re: God help us! (Score:2)
It will just work initially. Eventually it will randomly do dumb things without your request. Randomly it will just drive itself to Costco even though you havent shopped there in 3 years. Also everyone will complain that they insist on a 1m charging cord and warn against aftermarket 4m cords.
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Hey it's great to see the president of Chrysler posting on Slashdot! Glad to have you aboard.
apple has deep pockets to pay out on death and it (Score:2)
apple has deep pockets to pay out on death and it may even run some one over meany times as an death pay out is less then an life time of paying there bills in an bad crash.
ask uber and they put the safety driver under the (Score:2)
ask uber and they put the safety driver under the bus in the court system but they get off from any criminal charges.
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They can't be 0.03MP otherwise iPads and iPhones couldn't be used to scan rooms.
https://www.cnet.com/news/ipho... [cnet.com]
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And Apple's magical new battery technology is just lifepo4, already popular for marine, skateboards and e-bikes. But Apple will improve this from the point of view of Apple, by selling it for twice as much.
time to get in right to repair laws so apple can't (Score:2)
time to get in right to repair laws so apple can't lock out any 3rd party repair / parts swapping.
Call me dense... (Score:2)
I also am a little skeptical that they will do a better job with FSD than Tesla or some of the other players, but they might be able to impress
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Technology for FSD is still in early development and they may think that anyone that can get a hold in that market can have really high margins and only companies with deep pockets can develop it.
The thing that I think may cause them to fail is that the automobile market is a lot older and established than the phone market, and a lot more regulated, so the FSDs tech will probably be heavly regulated before (or right after) entering the market and will have to follow common standards, which apple abhors.
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And remember the Apple wireless charger. Oh, you don't remember, because they couldn't make it work.
Yeah about that... (Score:2)
If they have a handle on some new battery technology that is a good start. However it would be dumb to assume that Tesla will be standing still in that area.
Yet the advantage Tesla has is not so much the battery and the car design but their now-proven ability to build in quantity. To compete with them Apple will have to show how they can match Tesla's manufacturing capability. And Tesla shows no sign of sitting still there either; Munroe confirmed a rumor that Tesla just bought 12 more aluminum cast
A car you can buy, but can't own (Score:1)
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act bans that (Score:2)
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act bans then bricking your car for useing an non apple shop.
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Apple will pay to get that changed.
I expect ... (Score:2)
...the iRocket in 2030.
But it will be totally simple to use, even your granny will be able to fly to the moon to see their grand-kids, if she can handle an iPhone.
car dealerships laws may get in apples way (Score:2)
car dealerships laws may get in apples way in some states apple can't own the dealerships.
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Tesla has worked around this quite successfully--they just don't have sales offices in those states, and offer customers valet service so they're not inconvenienced by having to take the car hundreds of miles away for service. If you're genuinely looking to buy a hot product like a Tesla, it's not a huge deal to take a half a day or so travel to/from the nearest Tesla dealership.
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Re: car dealerships laws may get in apples way (Score:2)
Thats not how they get rich. Lobbyist money goes into campaign funds so they can stay in power. They get rich by gaming the stock market with insider information they get sitting on counsel seats. Martha Stewart served real time for doing MUCH less than politicians do and its just as illegal. Same reason why sharks never attack lawyers. Professional courtesy.
needs to be made in the usa! (Score:2)
needs to be made in the usa!
This isn't the iPhone (Score:2)
Now, my comments from 2006 on whether the iPhone would take off or not...didn't age well, I'll admit. Maybe this will be my "less space than a Nomad" comment, but I'm just not sure an Apple Car is going to be its next iPhone...
The iPhone sold as well as it did because it solved many, many issues people had at the time. Consolidating one's iPod with one's cell phone was a huge improvement, especially since it could use one's existing iTunes library, itself popular because of the iPod, which brought with it t
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An Apple Car has none of these things going for it.
You have no idea at all what things an Apple car has going for it, and anyone who does isn't allowed to tell you.
-jcr
Given it's still years away, I don't even think they know what it'll have going for it once it's released.
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An Apple Car has none of these things going for it.
You have no idea at all what things an Apple car has going for it, and anyone who does isn't allowed to tell you.
-jcr
You're right, I don't. However, people were buying music well before the iPod. Apple turned that activity into an ecosystem that they leveraged to propel the iPhone into the stratosphere.
Apple did the same thing in 2010; the iPad used the existing iPhone app ecosystem as a springboard to get it going.
Nobody needed to violate an NDA to see that there was a logical step from an established ecosystem.
There's nothing like that for an Apple Car. There's no established ecosystem that isn't available in a Hyundai
Titan is bullshit (Score:1)
Apple, the utility company. (Score:2)
The future isn't consumer electronics rather battery technology storage for wind turbines*, whose power they sell back to the grid in the form of car charging stations.
* c.f. Tesla's battery in South Australia.
Heard this before (Score:1)
The list of incredible new battery technology that will be ready for market in 3 years is very extensive, and has a failure rate well over 99%. Technologies that are demonstrated in the lab very rarely make it to the market for various reasons, including no practical production methods, impractical costs to manufacture, non-scalability of the process, and a failure of further testing to show a benefit to existing technology. There are many other reasons for these technologies never making it beyond the anno
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Apple's "new" battery technology is lithium iron phosphate, already used extensively in marine and e-bikes. Not widely used in automotive because it is 20% less power dense than li-ion. Apple will have a tough time explaining that one away.
iCar (Score:2)
Which you can only drive on Apple approved roads.
Too bad if you live in the country and have a long driveway.
And if its snowing out , it won't start. You shouldn't be trying to drive in such weather.
Huh? (Score:2)
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The whole thing smacks of out of touch marketing guys lolling around on bean bag chairs.
This is idiotic, speculative click bait (Score:2)
No doors? (Score:2)
They'll probably decide that doors are aesthetically ugly.. and just not have them making it impossible to get in without a special accessory to remove the windows. The accessory will be about 10% the size of the car and make the car really clunky.. but without the accessory the car will be "awesome"
what if Apple car... (Score:2)
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They should just buy Tesla. (Score:1)
Because that's the closest thing to what they're looking for.
Right now they're a decade late and billions short.
Tesla is still shit (Score:3)
... and I hate it.
The car is just not intuative at all to use and build quality is complete shit.
As an example, my wife and I had to resort to watching a youtube video to learn how to adjust the side mirrors since the control center is so badly organized.
Nevertheless, in my country having an electric company car cuts my taxes down to 100 bucks a month, compared to 5 times that for my last car.
You have to use that center screen for everything. Since it is not intuitive, you have to take your eyes off the road A LOT in order to do simple things that in other cars are just a knob or button.
I am getting side tracked...
Where am I going with this?
Tesla has been making cars for a while now. They are loads better than they were, but they are still shit boxes. Anyone who says otherwise is a lying.
Making a good car is really hard.
Developing the processes for assembly and the supply chain is amazing hard.
Developing the distrobution chain is hard.
Getting a car certified so that it can legally drive on the road is VERY VERY hard.
Not only does basically every component need to have a certification associated with it (that little E1 or E13 or E+number you see), you also have to certify the entire car as a system.
That is not something you do in a short period of time. My company is currently doing certificates for auto components scheduled to go into production for 2022.
Point is, expect any car that comes out of Apple to shit for the first several years. Given their cash on hand though, they can certainly afford to get there eventually.
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Apple could leapfrog that awkward stage entirely by buying a design from someone competent, and having it manufactured by someone competent. In the USA if that is not one of the big three, that means AM General. In other countries there are other contract manufacturers.
Monocell? Can't be literal. (Score:2)
Apple plans to use a unique "monocell" design that bulks up the individual cells in the battery
"Bulks up" means "makes larger". It doesn't mean "to aggregate in bulk". But if you just made the cells larger you still wouldn't...
and frees up space inside the battery pack by eliminating pouches and modules that hold battery materials
Yeah, no. The voltage of a single cell isn't high enough to be useful. So it's only going to reduce those things. They're still going to need at least ten or twelve cells, and that would still only get you into 48V territory where the mild hybrids hang out. EVs are all running higher voltages than that.
This article is poop.
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Apple touts lifepo4 as their magic new non-exploding battery technology, overlooking the fact that this is 20% less power dense than li-ion and charges slower.
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And it costs twice as much, it's perfect for Apple.
It IS less likely to combust, although once it's on fire it's as hard to deal with as any lithium battery.
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Lifepo4 is cheaper per watt hour than li-ion, both ordered direct from China in comparable form factor. However, Apple will sell this magic battery for twice as much because it is magic, according to Apple. So you are right, perfect for Apple, but not right about the cost, which makes it even more perfect for Apple.
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IME when you look at batteries worth buying the price is very different. Last I heard the CALB cells were the ones to have, but I've been putting off getting anything. I'm going to have to jump on it soon, though. I'd love to have lifepo4 but they have to be cheap to justify them over used EV cells.
Apple will cut your speed in half! (Score:1)
One of the unadvertised features of the Apple Car is it will automatically limit your speed to half the posted speed limit if it detects you have spent too much time driving at or above the posted limit.
Apple Automatically reduces headphone volume to 50% in iOS 14.2 [apple.com]