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Pakistan Forced Down Apps Made By a Persecuted Religious Minority (buzzfeednews.com) 95

Posted by BeauHD from the app-crackdown dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from BuzzFeed News: Over the last two years, the government of Pakistan has forced Google and Apple to take down apps in the country created by developers based in other nations who are part of a repressed religious minority. The move is part of a crackdown led by the country's telecommunications regulator targeting the Ahmadiyya Muslim community. Adherents, called Ahmadis, number about 4 million in Pakistan. Though Ahmadis identify as Muslim, Pakistan's government views them as heretics, and a 1984 ordinance forbids them from "posing" as Muslims, adopting Islamic religious practices, and referring to their houses of worship as mosques. Pakistan is the only country to declare that Ahmadis are not Muslim.

Ahmadis have faced persecution for decades, including an attack in 2010 that killed 93 people. But the pressure on multinational tech companies from Pakistan's telecom regulator, the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA), signals a new willingness to target religious minorities beyond its borders. It is also one of the first examples of governments using anti-blasphemy rules to force international tech companies to censor content. At issue are seven religious apps created by the Ahmadi community in the United States, published under the name "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community." Three of the apps contain "the exact same [Arabic] text found universally in all versions of the Holy Quran," as well as commentary from the Ahmadi perspective, according to their descriptions. They are still available on app stores in other countries. All of these have been taken down by Google in Pakistan. In addition, there are four other apps, which include an FAQ on Islam and a weekly Urdu-language news magazine, that the PTA is pressuring Google to remove, but which have not been taken down.
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Pakistan Forced Down Apps Made By a Persecuted Religious Minority More

Pakistan Forced Down Apps Made By a Persecuted Religious Minority

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  • Private company (Score:5, Funny)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:07AM (#61030398)
    If you don't like Google and Apple to take down apps in Pakistan to help the government prosecute religious minority, then build your own Internet.

    • Re:Private company (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:21AM (#61030426)
      Exactly this. Corporations have a right to control who uses their platform. Religious minorities can build their own platform, if AWS will not host it they can build their own AWS too.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Corporations have a right to control who uses their platform. Religious minorities can build their own platform, if AWS will not host it they can build their own AWS too.

        From concentration camps that nobody will know about.

      • So.... if a housing development refuses to sell to Muslims because the corrupt city government does not want Muslims living in town, we say, "Corporations have a right to control who purchases their houses. Religious minorities can build their own county, their own town, and their own houses." We might as well make them use their own drinking fountains while we're at it.

        When a corporation has such a level of control and even goes so far as to use that control to enable persecution, then clearly there is som

    • Google and Apple are not the internet. I know too little about the region to know if the Ahmadis have the wherewithal to build their own app store, but what are the alternatives? Hoping that a giant corp like Google or Apple will act consistently with our First Amendment is obviously not realistic. But a law forcing Google and Apple to act in the spirit of the First Amendment would itself violate the First Amendment.

      Should we boycott Google and Apple for not doing what nobody else is doing? Maybe you are pr

  • Forced? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:08AM (#61030402)

    Yep, Google and Apple, the two of the most powerful corporations had NO CHOICE. Google is willing to leave Australia over having to pay for content they display, and have already left China once after they backdoored Gmail, they have the option if they wanted to.

  • Hypocrisy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dog-Cow ( 21281 ) on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:16AM (#61030414)

    As usual, the Leftists of Google show their hypocrisy. They will fight tooth-and-nail for the right to make money in Australia, but won't stand up for actual persecuted people in Pakistan.

    • Re:Hypocrisy (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:31AM (#61030444)
      Yes, those damn Leftists. Only interested in profits!

      A good Capitalist would never care about profit!

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

        You seem to have missed the point. For a capitalist, interest in profits above anything else isn't hypocrisy.

  • That Mohammad was the "final prophet". Sounds like some social media disinformation to me.

    • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        I would like to recommend that you do not attempt to state something like this in Pakistan. You'll find that freedom of speech is a right that doesn't exist in islamic world and that you just committed a capital offence in several nations, including Pakistan.

    • Interestingly, the Muslims used to assert that "Jesus wasn't the final Prophet"...when God had something else to say (usually to the general effect of "y'all screwed up what that Prophet told you, so let me clarify..."), he'd send another....

  • Computers you do not control (Score:3)

    by jabberw0k ( 62554 ) on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:20AM (#61030422) Homepage Journal
    Those are not "telephones" -- those are computers. It is our responsibility as computer- and tech-savvy folks to avoid using computers we do not control, and to help everyone avoid using computers they do not control. Your money and your time are powerful. Do not give Microsoft, Apple, Google, or Amazon (MAGA) your brain-space or your hard-earned dollars. Stop hurting yourself, the tech community, and the world, by giving those clowns your money. Help other folks to do to the same.

  • Pakistan is deeply messed up (Score:5, Informative)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:31AM (#61030448) Journal
    Pakistan persecutes all religious minorities. Christians, Hindus, Muslim denominations like Ahmadias, Sufis, even the microscopic Buddhists in remote mountain peaks.

    Even in the "non-persecuted" parts there are clear class distinctions. Punjabi Muslims, who are sunni, dominate the military and hence the politics and commerce too. The Sindh, Balochistan and parts of Kashmir are shia and they get second class treatment, but not outright persecution.

    Urban real estate is very expensive in Pakistan, and in fact in the entire sub continent. Pakistani army commandeers large tracts of land for "security and military use". Then later is declares sections closer to urban centers, as "superflous" and sells it back to "public". But the sale goes through a quota system where ex-servicemen, their term for veterans, get a lion's share. So the easiest legal way to become wealthy in Pakistan is to get into the armed forces and get the coveted ex-servicemen status. Recruitment into the military and promotions are dominated by Punjabi Muslim officers.

    So, in the end, as always, the religious persecution is the outward symptom of structural inequalities in opportunities for the people.

  • It's not like Google and Apple have created a situation where they control what software people can run on their devices.

    • It's not like Google and Apple have created a situation where they control what software people can run on their devices.

      Apple has, Google hasn't. Conflating the two is disingenuous.

      • Google hasn't.

        In theory, yes. In practice there is no difference.

        • In practice I am using a phone that came with Android with LineageOS right NOW, and without gapps, and with F-Droid. So in practice, the difference is massive.

          • In practice, it doesn't matter that you (and I) can do it. If an app isn't in the Google app store, it might as well not exist. Users of alternative app stores are a rounding error in the reach of apps. Google has a de facto monopoly on app distribution on Android phones.

            • Users of alternative app stores are a rounding error in the reach of apps.

              It's not about numbers. It's about having a choice.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by DeVilla ( 4563 )
                It's also about what's practical. It is something your average person who doesn't fetishize technology can do?

                • It's also about what's practical. It is something your average person who doesn't fetishize technology can do?

                  Yes, if they can follow directions. The software involved is free and freely available, and there are step-by-step instructions presented for all supported platforms. They could also pay a few bucks to have some kid do it for them. It's not hard unless you convince yourself that it's hard.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dutt ( 738848 )

      It's not that easy for your grandma to do or your non-geek friend who just wants to "use" their phone with having to setup various things.
      That's the de-facto reason Apple and Google wield immense power on what get's used. Take Parler for example and it's simultaneous takedown.

      Just look at what is happening to Huawei when they try to create their own app store ecosystem. Not very successful after being cut off from Google's channels in my opinion.

  • Well, some countries have fucked up laws, which is very easy to happen when religion gets involved (yeah, the US is sadly not that far behind, watch out if current trends continue). But companies care about their bottom line, so they will abide to the fucked up laws if they want to trade in the country.

    In this case, unless Pakistan has any other limitations, it is rather trivial to switch to a different country's google app store by making a new account. It might be an issue for paid apps, but free would be

    • Re:Fucked up laws (Score:5, Informative)

      by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Friday February 05, 2021 @10:08AM (#61030784)

      (yeah, the US is sadly not that far behind, watch out if current trends continue).

      In the last decade or so, the US has legalized gay marriage and is in the process of decriminalizing some drugs. What trends are you talking about? I think that's quite a bit away from legally codified discrimination against religious minorities, unless you are talking about Mormons not being allowed to marry more than once or something.

  • This is Pakistan we are talking about.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sinij ( 911942 )
      This is news because it is big tech implementing censorship on behalf of fucked up government. This is BAD on its own. More so, it is hypocrisy of the highest order - where California Liberals that control these companies, that always lecture us about diversity and inclusion, decided that it is OK to censor religious minority.

  • Don't you hate it when government threatens companies with legal harm if they don't censor things the government doesn't like, and finds a threat to the politicians in power?

    Me too!

    Now let's get back to threatening section 230 and tens of billions in losses to tech media giants if they don't censor harrassment, oh, and our political opponents are tweeting harrassing things.

    • Section 230 give companies the liberty to censor or not censor what they want without being liable to US law. It *should* have been written to only protect companies from liability of NOT CENSORING posts. What end up is internet companies in US now only need to cater to demands of authoritarian governments in other countries (censor what they hate) and trash the ideal of freedom of speech. The law was set up under the rationale that a forum admin don't have the capacity to screen all posts to make sure all

      • Not sure I understand your point - 230 is a US law, has nothing to do with nor any ability to have anything to do with other countries. Why would Pakistan care about 230?

        • It's the parent post that's start talking about US law, not me. Meanwhile, the app store of both Apple and Android phones are hosted by US companies. So section 230 do affect app stores.

  • Freedom of speech, democracy, human rights ... these are all western created social constructs. What moral right do western companies have to impose them on other cultures through economic blackmail?

    • Freedom of speech, democracy, human rights ... these are all western created social constructs. What moral right do western companies have to impose them on other cultures through economic blackmail?

      Are you suggesting everything is relative including "moral rights" or is everything except "moral rights" relative?

  • It's not like schizoid delusions are ever OK. Pakistan's behavior shows exactly why. It doesn't matter if they are a minority or a majority. (Though this shows what happens, if they ever became a majority too.)

    If somebody's actions are not based on observed reality, then he is ill, and his behavior will unavoidably end in him being a threat to society and to everyone under his control, like children, or citizens. Usually as soon as anyone questions his "beliefs" or shows hard evidence (to be destroyed).

    They

    • Pakistan is a theocracy. There is no right side here. Just two insane sides arguing about which delusion is the one true delusion. It's a country where there is a death penalty for blasphemy. And atheists that gather too much attention are made an example of in the most extreme way.

      It boggles my mind that US companies think it's acceptable to do business with these countries. And that the US government not only condones it, but encourages it. We're a bunch of hypocrites, we say one thing and do another.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by randjh ( 7163909 )
      Observed reality? There is no observed reality. There are observed events. How you attribute causality and make interpretations are your constructed reality. Yours and mine are going to differ. Doesn 't mean that either of them are The Truth.

  • One set of fanatic delusional people wants to suppress another set of fanatic delusional people. Just another normal day in the US of A.

  • Ah religion.. brining the world together with God in peace and harmony since 20000 bce.

  • Fools (Score:1, Troll)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 )

    Ok, religious people in this day and age are delusional. Although interestingly in Physics the Standard Model of the universe was co-developed by Abdus Salam who was a person from the Pakistani Ahmadi muslim community. He won a Nobel prize in physics. But pakistanis don't even know who he is. I've heard his grave cannot be marked as such in Pakistan. The issue here seems to be that the non-Ahmadi muslims think that claiming to a muslim is the equivalent of someone with no medical degree claiming to be a doc

  • ALL of these idiots need to get their heads of the sand and realize that there is no such thing as god, or whatever magic being(s) they worship.

    • ALL of these idiots need to get their heads of the sand and realize that there is no such thing as god, or whatever magic being(s) they worship.

      Careful what you wish for. There are far worse things than Abrahamic religion idiots could be filling their heads with.

      • That still does not make it right.

        When the real world comes knocking at your door with a cold hard fact, modding it as troll does not make that fact go away.

  • So, India has shut down Internet for Muslim minorities: https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
    And now, in a unrelated move, Muslim Pakistan is shutting down apps for Ahmadi minorities.
    Bangladesh, which is Muslim had a ban for Rhoinga refugees, which are also Muslim: https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com]
    Buddhist in Myanmar was the reason those Rohinga became refugees in the first place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    So regardless of religion, everyone seems to oppress whichever minorities happen to be in their reg

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