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The Military Power

Europe's Largest Nuclear Power Plant On Fire After Russian Shelling (apnews.com) 458

Posted by BeauHD from the latest-developments dept.
Russian forces shelled Europe's largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire. The Associated Press reports: Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility's six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said. Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said. A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine's power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released. Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.

Mayor Dmytro Orlov and the Ukrainian state atomic energy company reported that a Russian military column was heading toward the nuclear plant. Loud shots and rocket fire were heard late Thursday. [...] Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal called on the West to close the skies over the country's nuclear plants as fighting intensified. "It is a question of the security of the whole world!" he said in a statement. The U.S. and NATO allies have ruled out creating a no-fly zone since the move would pit Russian and Western military forces against each other.
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Europe's Largest Nuclear Power Plant On Fire After Russian Shelling More

Europe's Largest Nuclear Power Plant On Fire After Russian Shelling

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  • Fuck. (Score:4, Funny)

    by AmazingRuss ( 555076 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @08:28PM (#62324181)
    Fuck fuck fuck.

    • Re:Fuck. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Samantha Wright ( 1324923 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @08:31PM (#62324195) Homepage Journal
      Try to look at the positives. Nothing unites the world against Soviet hegemony quite like Russians causing nuclear accidents in Ukraine. (I'm looking at you, Anatoly Dyatlov...)
      • If the world does unite against them, they’ll uncork the flying nukes too.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Jzanu ( 668651 )
          Putin and his cronies continually threaten nuclear war to get their way. The solution is to murder Vladimir Putin and to murder any and every Russian leader who makes a similar threat. The solution is to take custody of, sabotage, destroy, and even use nuclear weapons against known launching locations. Putin wants a war, but it is one that he will lose.

        • If the world does unite against them, they’ll uncork the flying nukes too.

          If Putin maintains his nuclear arsenal as well as he maintains the armored vehicles in that miles-long convoy near Kyiv, his nukes won't make it out of Russian airspace.

          • If the world does unite against them, they’ll uncork the flying nukes too.

            If Putin maintains his nuclear arsenal as well as he maintains the armored vehicles in that miles-long convoy near Kyiv, his nukes won't make it out of Russian airspace.

            That column may not make it out [militarytimes.com] of Ukraine.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Calinous ( 985536 )

            " his nukes won't make it out of Russian airspace."
            _most_ of his nukes won't reach their targets. Unfortunately, this leaves _some_ nukes that will reach their targets.

      • Re:Fuck. (Score:5, Informative)

        by suss ( 158993 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @08:45PM (#62324235)

        I wonder if the people of Belarus knew about what the Russians did in 1986, there would likely have been as much animosity between them and Russia as Ukraine has, probably more.

        How we made the Chernobyl rain - More than 4,000 square miles of Belarus were sacrificed to save the Russian capital from the toxic radioactive material. [telegraph.co.uk]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by bobby ( 109046 )

          I work with a seasoned wise man who did work in Russia maybe mid-90s, got into Ukraine, Belarus, etc. He also used to work with a Belarussian (in the US). He thinks the Belarussians- men anyway- are some of the worst people on earth. Maybe all that radiation killed off the nice / sane people and the tough idiots survived and multiplied.

      • The world is essentially united against Russia. Even China is tacitly going along with the sanctions (like SWIFT).

        The question is what to do? How do you solve the problem without creating a nuclear war?

        • The world is essentially united against Russia. Even China is tacitly going along with the sanctions (like SWIFT).

          Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank has put on hold all activities related to Russia and Belarus [reuters.com]. That's more than tacitly going along with sanctions.

          The question is what to do? How do you solve the problem without creating a nuclear war?

          Who's going to nuclear war? Why even bring it up? The only ones who ever say anything about nuclear war are Russian trolls. Not even Putin is stupid enough to use a nuclear weapon.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by phantomfive ( 622387 )

            Who's going to nuclear war? Why even bring it up?

            If nuclear war isn't a threat, then the problem has a simple solution. NATO sends in the airforce and destroys the Russian conventional army. Ukrainians clean up the stragglers. The end.

          • Ferengi rule number six: Never blow up your customers. It's bad for business.

        • Re:Fuck. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by rmdingler ( 1955220 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @09:30PM (#62324413) Journal

          The world is essentially united against Russia. Even China is tacitly going along with the sanctions (like SWIFT).

          The question is what to do? How do you solve the problem without creating a nuclear war?

          The sanctions and Swift Payment prohibitions are only effective if they truly cripple the Kremlin. Exempting energy transactions from the sanctions to mollify suffering in Europe, and enforcing Swift Payment prohibitions on only a few banks smell of posturing by the West...

          I'm not recommending escalating to WWIII to prove the point, but it seems clear on the order of crystal the West isn't threatening to go there over the brave Ukrainians.

          The former KGB President may or may not be bluffing regarding the nuclear wild card, but if we don't make him play his hand now, we damn well might be dealt this same hand next year in Georgia, or somewhere similar in eastern Europe.

          Precarious times indeed.

        • The world is essentially united against Russia. Even China is tacitly going along with the sanctions (like SWIFT).

          The question is what to do? How do you solve the problem without creating a nuclear war?

          The problem has to be solved internally by Russia. Putin has to be removed, and cooler heads have to take over the Russian leadership.

          Note that I'm not advocating outside forces killing him, that would be an act of war and a violation of the Geneva convention, but if it's done internally then it solves everyone's problems.

          Extreme pressure on Russia and its people is meant to accomplish that.

          • Really and truly, the West is posturing... sanctions that mean little and the suspension of Swift payments to a few banks.

            The only chance of saving the Ukrainian democracy is from Mother Russia herself... "The honorable President Putin has tragically slipped and fallen in his shower." Khvala!

            • Yeah, meaningless.

              Which is why the Russian stock market collapsed 60% in two days before it was suspended and hasn't opened again since, why there are runs on Russian banks, and why the Ruble's foreign exchange value is asymptotically approaching zero. Not to mention that the rest of Europe is currently playing "impound the Russian yacht," except for Britain (because the Tories are apparently as thoroughly owned by Russia as the American GQP).

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dryeo ( 100693 )

            Have sanctions ever forced a positive, or even negative, regime change?

            • Your question interested me enough to do research, and I found this: https://wcfia.harvard.edu/publ... [harvard.edu] Apparently there is some positive impact from sanctions.

              Often, sanctions aimed at improving democracy do not immediately cause a revolution, but they encourage the replacement to be more democratic when a revolution does happen. The dictator's successor is anxious to make things better by at least pretending to be democratic.

              The article points to Guatemala (1993), Nicaragua (1996), and Thailand (1993) as c

      • Try to look at the positives. Nothing unites the world against Soviet hegemony quite like Russians causing nuclear accidents in Ukraine. (I'm looking at you, Anatoly Dyatlov...)

        Another possible positive. The wind might blow the cloud towards Russia.

      • Spoken like a true right wing extremist

      • Da Comrade, but the meter says very plainly 3.6 roentgen. Not great, not terrible.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Russia just declared war on the EU and NATO (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Jzanu ( 668651 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @08:35PM (#62324201)
    This is a declaration of war by Russia against the EU and NATO. Imposing a no-fly zone and free-fire bombing of all Russian troop columns should commence as soon as possible. Then bomb Putin's bunkers until he has no where to hide.

    • No can do. Ukraine is not a NATO country. There's no supporting treaty or document that supports any defense of Ukraine by anyone.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by drnb ( 2434720 )
        A deadly radioactive cloud drifting into a NATO nation may be considered an attack. It does not matter if the intended target was Ukrainians.

    • Re:Russia just declared war on the EU and NATO (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Rayfield k. ( 8918519 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @09:11PM (#62324357)

      Congratulations, you have started nuclear war and killed everyone. Good job retard.

    • > This is a declaration of war by Russia against the EU and NATO. Imposing a no-fly zone and free-fire bombing of all Russian troop columns should commence as soon as possible. Then bomb Putin's bunkers until he has no where to hide.

      And you think you can just bomb and impose your will on Russia as you did on smaller countries that cannot defend themselves?

      Good thing you're not in charge of making these decisions... otherwise I guess we would truly be in WW3. Though, looking at the state of the world righ

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Jzanu ( 668651 )
        Putin makes threats of nuclear war, Putin dies. Putin order attacks that produce radioactive fallout, Putin dies. It is that simple.
    • To keep Europe dependent on fossil fuels - of which Russia has plenty.

      Remember that nuclear disaster in Japan? That's why Germany tried to de-nuke. Now Russia is trying to make it happen on purpose.

      The new argument will be: no nuclear power plants because they can get shelled in wars.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by fermion ( 181285 )
        So here is the reality that no one talks about. Half the uranium comes from Kazakhstan, Russia, and Uzbekistan. The only stable countries producing significant amount of uranium is Australia and Canada, combined about 25%. Germany cut nuclear power because it stopped mining 30 years ago for safety reasons.

        Uranium has the same issues as fossil fuels. It need to be extracted. It needs to be refined. And it is not happening in friendly countries.

        And yes, any serious attack is going to involve the destruct

        • Properly designed plants, as the pro nuclear people always tell us, will shut down with only limited fallout.

          Few people seem to be aware that the bigger problem is the spent fuel cooling pools. In most plants these are less protected than the reactors, and contain more total radioactivity than the active cores.

          If the cooling pool container gets breached or pumps get put out of commission, the spent fuel can overheat to the point where the metal cladding ignites, potentially releasing massive amounts of radiation.

      • Or hydro. The Russkies are already attempting to destroy a dam that'd drown over a million, also in Zaporozhia -- a dam that they have already destroyed before in 1941 to kill 1500 Germans and 120k of Ukrainian civilians. The current attempt was so far a single long-range missile that got shot down -- a non-half-assed try wouldn't allow a claim of accident -- but with Putin's insanity, if he doesn't get his way, he may try again.

    • This is a declaration of war by Russia against the EU and NATO. Imposing a no-fly zone and free-fire bombing of all Russian troop columns should commence as soon as possible. Then bomb Putin's bunkers until he has no where to hide.

      I'm seriously glad you are not in charge of operations - this isn't a game of civ.

      Russia has around 6000 nuclear weapons and Putin has already strongly hinted he is prepared to use them.
      So, yes, in a way, this is a game - a terrible game - a game of brinksmanship.

      Given Putin was prepared to send the largest army since WWII to attack a sovereign state, without provocation, it is possible he is crazy enough to use nuclear weapons, assured mutual destruction or not.

      Right now, nobody is entirely sure just how s

  • Seriously, what's the plan here? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stoicfaux ( 466273 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @08:37PM (#62324207)

    Is the goal to provoke a military response from EU/US/NATO so Putin can claim EU/US/NATO belligerence to justify his invasion of the Ukraine to his people back home? Or are the Russians simply trying to cut power to most of the Ukraine (the plant provides 25% of the country's power (but why not just take out the transmission towers?)) Or is the Russian military just that incompetent? Seriously, WTF?

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by higuita ( 129722 )

        there is another one (and please be open, i'm not defending Putin. but in war there are crazy people in both sides!... There are radicals everywhere and a war increase that radicalism even more. In war you have to cover as much as possible any outcome).
        4-You can't put out that some Ukrainian radicals could cause a nuclear accident to try to blame Russia and trigger some western response. Yes, it is burning their own land but that kind of things do happen in wars. Russia may be taking over nuclear plants to

    • Putin is 74 years old and suffering from age-related cognitive decline. It happens to all of us eventually (unless something else gets us first, of course). Its sad but ultimately nothing to be ashamed of, because it is natural and unavoidable (at least given present-day medical technology).

      Be that as it may, when it happens to us, we simply must put certain responsibilities down. We must let others see to our needs and make certain decisions for us, there is simply no other way.

      Putin's condition is cost

      • Correction, apparently Putin is only 70 years old. That doesn't change anything, though.

      • It's time for him to step down. And if he will not, someone needs to force his relinquishing of power on medical grounds.

        Someone needs to force his relinquishing power with a garotte.

        • It's time for him to step down. And if he will not, someone needs to force his relinquishing of power on medical grounds.

          Someone needs to force his relinquishing power with a garotte.

          Would a $1 million bounty [yahoo.com] to have Putin arrested suffice?

          • Considering the billions of dollars at play now, a million dollars seems lame, though I do appreciate the thought. Something really big that would bring every potential would-be assassin out of the woodwork - say $100,000,000 - that might be enough to keep Putin from sleeping ever again. I'd make a donation myself to such a worthy cause.

      • Just an outlier theory, but perhaps we should consider excluding heads of state in all nations at the age of 70?

        • Just an outlier theory, but perhaps we should consider excluding heads of state in all nations at the age of 70?

          We could send them to the Fletcher Memorial Home.

        • With what? Autocrats amass power by slowly changing the rules in their favor. Maybe an she limit in Democratic republics might be a good thing (not really having that debate) but one of the first thing an aspiring autocrat is gunna do is just ditch the law. So it does nothing to address a future Putin

        • There is such similar forced retirement rule, albeit unwritten, established by Deng in China. But then Xi is demolishing it for himself now. Dictators can't be stopped by law. They can only be stopped by a lot of life loss.

    • Re:Seriously, what's the plan here? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @09:01PM (#62324321) Journal

      The Russian military is incompetent. They haven't been able to coordinate their forces, they've run out of fuel, they've failed to take objectives or clear the air despite their superior hardware. Multiple experienced generals have commented how surprised they have been by the military incompetence demonstrated by Russia.

      It should be noted that the Russian military probably doesn't want to fight, which perhaps explains some of the incompetence.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Unfortunately, that incompetence may be about to turn the Black Sea green and glowing. On the flip side, at least Russia won't want Crimea anymore.

        • On the flip side, at least Russia won't want Crimea anymore.

          I get the feeling Putin wouldn't mind if Ukraine were turned into a wasteland. For some strange reason that I don't understand, Russian leaders have long felt entitled to abuse Ukrainians, letting them starve to death, etc.

          • For some strange reason that I don't understand, Russian leaders have long felt entitled to abuse Ukrainians, letting them starve to death, etc.

            I presume they're mad that Ukraine is older than Russia. Ukraine had a thriving metropolis while Russians were still wallowing in mud. I mean, Ukrainians were also still wallowing in mud, but not in Kyiv.

      • The Russians don't want to fight Putin's crazy war, so they're half-assing it on purpose.

        • Not to mention that Russians and Ukrainians are so familially intertwined that every shot fired is likely to hit somebody's 2nd cousin or uncle-in-law; it would be like the US going to war with Canada or Mexico.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by eth1 ( 94901 )

        The Russian military is incompetent. They haven't been able to coordinate their forces, they've run out of fuel, they've failed to take objectives or clear the air despite their superior hardware. Multiple experienced generals have commented how surprised they have been by the military incompetence demonstrated by Russia.

        It should be noted that the Russian military probably doesn't want to fight, which perhaps explains some of the incompetence.

        I'm kind of curious now whether Russia has really shot itself in the foot. China can now see how badly the Russian military is performing in the west, where it's easier to move stuff around - they might just decide they could use a chunk of eastern Russia, since it's now obvious that the army is incompetent.

        Yes, there's the nuclear issue, but if someone manages to take out Putin, there might be a window of opportunity.

  • There isn't going to be a hell of a lot left for them to take. Anyone who can get out will get out so the brain drain is going to be massive and they're going to be left with a country of refugees. Meanwhile if you go over to YouTube and look up Beau of the fifth column you'll find a video that explains in detail how even if they subjugate Ukraine Putin still lost. He has failed at every single one of his objectives and at this point it's only his pride that keeps him from withdrawing.

    • There isn't going to be a hell of a lot left for them to take.

      Precisely. What was once a thriving nation, with extensive agricultural and mineral resources, will be a smouldering wasteland. And now, for an added bonus, it will be a radioactive smouldering wasteland. The present government of Russia appears to be a death cult, intent on destruction for its own sake.

  • How about sending them (and maybe even helping set up) vehicle and/or infantry anti-aircraft weapons? If we don't want to do it ourselves, let Ukraine decide that Ukraine airspace is no-fly?

  • Unfortunately, the Russian army seems to have a history of attacking power plants [bloomberg.com]. But it takes a real moron to shell a nuclear power plant.

    If this reactor goes critical and fails a la Chernobyl, the prevailing winds from that plant will likely take any fallout straight over the Black Sea and into Turkey, which is a member of NATO. If that happens as the result of a deliberate act of aggression by the Russian military, NATO would arguably be within its rights to consider that a nuclear (dirty bomb) first

    • NATO isn't exactly looking for an excuse to enter the fight physically - quite the opposite. They won't be looking for creative interpretations of what is considered an "attack".

      The reality is that if NATO gets involved there is a strong chance that this could turn into a nuclear conflict. That is a war that Russia cannot win, but is NATO willing to sacrifice Los Angeles? New York? London? Berlin? Paris? Those cities could effectively be casualties of such a war, particularly if Putin feels backed in

  • Pretty stupid to do that.

  • "the reactor is on fire" (Score:3)

    by Rayfield k. ( 8918519 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @09:58PM (#62324475)

    None of the reactors are on fire. Ukraine emergency services have stated the fire is in a training building outside the main perimeter.

    Please stop believing the first news headline you see. It would also be nice if people would stop passing around literal videogame footage with a filter claiming it shows Russin/Ukraine/xyz committing war crimes.

    • Oof. Now they're saying differently.

    • A military attack on a nuclear power station is particularly reckless. So the Russian army got lucky, and did not irradiate the whole area. Or maybe they intended to irradiate the whole area, and create a radioactive no-go zone, as a defence against the imagined threat of NATO and the EU. It is rather difficult to reason about the intentions of a paranoid loon.

  • Russian culture (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Thursday March 03, 2022 @10:13PM (#62324503)
    is what you get when you build a civilization entirely around the core concept of zero f*&cks-given. About anything. Don't get me wrong, I love Russians. The world would be boring without them. There are Russians in my family. But they are the last culture you want as a major nuclear power. Individual Russians can be brilliant, heroic, and noble. But when you put them together they give absolutely zero f(^ks.

    Every time I post this, it gets instantly downmodded. I expect the same this time. Doesn't make it any less true. Shelling a nuclear reactor and then fire your machine guns at the emergency responders trying to put out the fire? That's what Russia calls a "tuesday".

    • is what you get when you build a civilization entirely around the core concept of zero f*&cks-given. About anything. Don't get me wrong, I love Russians. The world would be boring without them. There are Russians in my family. But they are the last culture you want as a major nuclear power. Individual Russians can be brilliant, heroic, and noble. But when you put them together they give absolutely zero f(^ks.

      I seriously doubt If Russians are "the last culture you want as a major nuclear power". Imagine Al-Qaeda and ISIS.

  • You Sure About That Reactor? (Score:3)

    by Toad-san ( 64810 ) on Friday March 04, 2022 @10:43AM (#62325891)

    Last night everyone was saying a "training building" outside the actual reactor area perimeter was on fire, NOT a reactor.

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